Home Forums Study Tours 2015 NCTA Study Tour to China and Taiwan reading -- taiwan matters, ch. 6-7

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  • #21898
    Anonymous
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    In Chapter 6 Riggers discusses the progression of Taiwan’s economic investment in China. She promotes Taiwan investors as being savvy because they kept investing in China in the 1990s when other foreigners limited their investment (P.121). Riggers sites key decisions made by Taiwanese businessmen, such as moving machinery to China, leasing land and hiring Taiwanese workers. Though all sound practices, she does not give enough comparison to how other foreign investments played out. It would make for a better argument if we have additional stories of foreign investment to examine and determine how Taiwanese entrepreneurs did in comparison.

    Riggers also downplays other advantages Taiwanese businessmen had over other foreign investors (P.121). While the two share a common, but also controversial history, the Taiwanese have a working knowledge of the customs and language of the Chinese. Though there would be some problems communicating between Mandarin and Cantonese, the Taiwanese would understand and could perform certain culturally appropriate greetings and social interactions. Additionally, Taiwanese investors could scrutinize any and all paperwork and negotiate for more favorable deals. Lastly, their knowledge of the geographic terrain helped them to select prime locations to establish their businesses. For example, Riggers explains that the Taiwanese chose to set up businesses in Dongguan due to its proximity to Hong Kong and ability to do business with foreign investors (P.121).

    Despite these advantages, many Taishang faced unscrupulous partners, competitors and officials (P.126). Doing business in China seems extremely competitive as explained in our Baidu meeting and exemplified by the defenestration of Google. The Taiwanese have proved pragmatic enough to establish and continue to do business with the mainland in light of the political challenges they face (P.127).
    edited by jalves on 7/23/2015
    edited by jalves on 7/23/2015

    #21899
    Anonymous
    Guest

    In Ch. 6, Rigger explains how mainland China and Taiwan developed business relationships that ultimately have led to prosperity for both. Rigger explains that the Tiananmen Square incident in 1989 had many foreign investors fleeing, yet the "Taiwanese doubled down" (p. 121). This led Taiwanese investors to take advantage of the cheap labor and loose regulations first. Rigger also explains how Taiwan is the "…most reliable and the cheapest IT hardware manufacturers" (p. 124). This is in part because entrepreneurs from Taiwan the know-how and technical education and factories on the mainland have a cheap overhead costs. San Diego's Qualcomm recently announced a plan to lay-off 5,000 workers after it lost a contract to a Taiwanese company, an example of its reliable and cheap products causing US manufacturers to lose out. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/jul/22/Qualcomm-jana-layoffs-smartphones-samsung/
    In Ch. 7 Rigger discussed the political balance between the two states-mainland China and Taiwan. When I taught high school, I always reiterated how much the U.S. feared the spread of Communism. Rigger states, " The White Terror period coincided with the high point of the Cold War when leaders in the democratic nations assumed 'Red China'…was plotting with its Soviet ally to spread Communism" (p. 136). In many parts of the world, including Taiwan, the US overlooked human right violations and totalitarian govenments simply because the ruling parties were not Communists. However, Rigger's interview with Chen Chu highlights a newer view of self-determination (p. 161-162). Chen explains that the people of Taiwan must vote in order to determine their independence or unification with mainland China. I think this attitude is the epitome of what the US Constitution stands for-a government must be by the people. In 7th grade I teach the models for the U.S. Constitution (i.e. Magna Carta), however, a lesson on what constitutions in the world were inspired by the U.S. (like Taiwan) would be an interesting unit to develop.
    edited by jilliansheehan on 7/24/2015

    #21900
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Chapter 6

    Taiwans’s investment model in China from the 1980’s to the present has been largely the same. Taiwanese move production facilities and suppliers to the mainland and hire local labor. Taishang (Taiwanese entrepreneurs) incorporate Chinese officials, business partners, and local labor into relationships of mutual benefit. By controlling the supply chain Taishang control quality. One important change to the model is the type of businesses Taiwanese invest in, and the scale of these operations. Initially Taiwanese firms in China were small to mid-sized manufacturers of textiles, plastics, toys, etc. Larger companies located in China in the next wave of investment, food and petrochemical manufacturers for example. The third phase of investment was information technologies (IT). China offered opportunities for Taiwanese manufacturers to grow large enough to market their own brands rather than just fill contracts for other companies. Acer (the first PC I purchased for my family) and ASUS are two Taiwanese computer companies born in this phase. The scale change meant Taiwanese businessmen had to develop new skills to manage companies with thousands of employees.
    Taiwan gained an insurmountable business advantage in China in 1989 after other international investment dried up in the aftermath of the disturbing events in Tianamen Square. Taishang have moved so much manufacturing to China the Taiwanese government is concerned about ‘Hollowing Out”. The other grave concern is that the growing economic dependence of Taiwan on China will make it vulnerable to political pressure from Beijing. Cross straight economic benefits are not one sided. China benefits too. Taiwanese businesses employ hundreds of thousands of Chinese and contribute greatly to the tax base. I have a sneaking suspicion that the mammoth furniture stores we saw in every Chinese city we visited were Taiwanese.

    Chapter 7
    The concept of the China inside, China outside deals with the threats to Taiwan’s existence. China outside is fairly obvious. The PRC has been very vocal and demonstrative in its goal of bringing Taiwan under its control. The rhetoric combined with military exercises preparing for an invasion of Taiwan leave no doubt of about the PRC position. The China within refers to the threat posed by factions within Taiwan. There has been resentment by indigenous groups and native Taiwanese against the mainlanders who have controlled the island since 1945. It is important for Taiwan to speak with one voice and view themselves as one people in order to cultivate allies that can help them defend against the China Outside. Lee Teng-hui set out to solve the problems posed by the China within when he became president in 1996. He began by establishing the people’s rite to directly elect their representatives, and developing a shared vision of Taiwan focusing on new freedoms, democracy, and prosperity. He worked to transfer internal dissatisfaction to the China outside. The next step was to aggressively pursue diplomatic channels to cultivate international friendships, and raise Taiwan’s profile in the world. Proponents of Taiwan’s independence feel Taiwan can’t reach its full potential unless it declares itself independent and takes the consequences. Shih Meng-teh’s belief is that “independence should be discovered not declared,” His argument that the freedom and democracy Taiwan already experiences is sufficient has been embraced by most Taiwanese. I believe extreme positions lead to violent conflict. It is always better to move slowly and let things evolve. Taiwan is already a defacto nation. There is no need to rock the boat. Chen Shui-bian's Five No's were no declaration of independence, no special state to state relationship in the constitution, no elimination of national unification guidelines, and no referendums on independence or unification. Ma Ying-jeou's Three No's are no unification, no independence, and no armed conflict. Ma’s no’s are very similar but less specific. The one no that is different is no armed conflict. This is in response to Beijing sabre rattling. Foreign policy is a little like writing emails (never say anything more than you absolutely need to because it can come back to burn you) so the least said the better.
    edited by karenrieger on 7/26/2015

    #21901
    Anonymous
    Guest

    In Chapter 6 Riggers introduces the main investment/economic opportunities mainland China had to offer the Taiwanese. Growing up I remember seeing "Made in Taiwan" labels on the bottom of toys and trinkets yet quickly this label changed to "Made in China." This chapter helps to explain why this change happened. Up until 1987 the Taiwanese were not able to trade, transfer money, or even travel to the mainland, but an economically-failing China soon realized that in order to remain relevant and successful, borders had to be opened. By the late 1980s/early 1990s Taiwanese were able travel to the mainland to see loved ones but what they saw was the "read China"; a desolate land of poorly educated, poorly dressed, and poorly fed people who were "cut off from the outside world" (riggers, pg 119). The Taiwanese travellers felt bad for the people, but their entrepreneurial side also saw this as an opportunity for growth for both parties: they could move their growing industries to the mainland and take advantage of their land and labor while bringing more prosperity to the Chinese. This move was especially profitable for the IT industries.

    At this point, however, Taiwan is heavily intertwined and therefore reliant on China's economy ( a current disaster) and they need to tread carefully to make sure they maintain good political relations to not ruin their industrial profits in the future.

    (interesting article from last year: http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/over-dependence-on-china-will-doom-taiwan/)

    #21902
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think it's interesting how China inside and China outside exist. Taiwan was never truly free from China in its existence. Today it has done well for itself, cornering the tech manufacturing market, becoming semi-self sufficient in industry, infrastructure and government organization. However, intertwining itself in the mainland kind of reminds me of countries joining the EU, in which some countries benefitted, and some countries suffered due to the economic co-dependency.

    #21903
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Riggers' explanation of Taiwan's independence on page 139-140 could be quite useful to our students. She describes The current relationship between China and Taiwan as a marriage on the rocks and what the implications of a divorce or reconciliation. In China's eyes, Taiwan is by name still part of China (Republic of China) and thus not independent. Taiwan by their own admission never declared independence since they had plans of retaking the mainland. As a result, both areas are still united in a marriage. Unfortunately, this marriage is in need of some major counseling. Both nations have lived apart for many years but have shown some cooperation is recent years. If Taiwan was to declare full independence, this would be seen as the final divorce and there would be consequences from China and the international community. If they reconciled, they would be under the yoke of Beijing. The current situation would be difficult for our students to understand. Most don't know that there is an issue between both countries. These four to five paragraphs could be given to our students so they can get a good understanding of the current situation and why the status quo is acceptable.

    #21904
    Anonymous
    Guest

    How important is Taiwan to China's economy? How important is China to Taiwan's economy?

    It is difficult to determine if China is more dependent on Taiwan or Taiwan on China. Throughout the years, they have both needed each other in order to prosper economically. China provides low manufacturing costs and land for factories, while Taiwan provides trendy and high tech products. Rigger mentions that while the Taiwanese were able to take advantage of several opportunities, “Taiwanese paid for their opportunities in China with everything from “voluntary” contributions to local charities to “jobs” for local officials”. (p.122) At the moment, the economic relationship seems to be equally important for both as they are dependent on each other. Rigger also mentions that “As the demand for electronic goods assembled in China grows, the demand for electronic components manufactured in Taiwan grows, too." (p.127)

    What, if any, Taiwanese brands or companies did you see during our visit in China?

    Other than HTC brand, I am having difficulty remembering Taiwanese Brands during our visit to China. I believe that part of the reason is that the language barrier made it difficult to remember names or many things. At least it did for me. The fact that most of the signs had English translations in Taiwan made it easier to remember names of brands, places, and streets. During our visit to Taiwan some of the brands that stood out to me were Aeon (scooters & minibikes), Adly (Scooters & quadbikes), Merida Bikes, SYM Motors (motorcycles, motorized scooters, and automobiles), EVA air, China Air, Evergreen Marine (Shipping and Transportation), Formosa plastics, Golden Emperor International LTD / GeIL (Ram, flash drive), Taiwan Mobile, Taiwan Electric, Bank of Taiwan.
    edited by malvarenga on 8/3/2015

    #21905
    Anonymous
    Guest

    In chapter 6, I read about the shaved ice and had heard about the mango, during our trip, I tried a combination of both, incredible. Since chapter 6 is focused on the economy of Taiwan, it was something I gladly spent my money on. Throughout the book and our trip, we heard the economic ties between Taiwan and China and how it influenced their political relationship. Unfortunately this creates issues for Taiwan as well as its relationship with China. The positive interaction in traveling back and forth between Taiwan and China seemed to be beneficial for both Taiwan, China and the people. The words used to describe Taiwan were sophistication, quality and trend by far different than what I read in the previous book but we were visiting different types of cities. The 3-D embroidery that we viewed was something that is an example of the innovation discussed in the chapter about Taiwan. President Nixon sending Henry Kissinger was a short section in the book but he was visible in multiple locations in pictures. An analysis of primary documents would be a discussion point for students in ELA but not part of 7th grade HSS. Chapter 7 doesn't include much for 7th grade HSS but primary documents would be easy to utilize for ELA and analyze and use with pictures or websites from locations that we traveled to in Teipei or Tainan.

    #3906
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Hi Folks,
    We're in Taiwan. Time to get caught up in posting your reaction to the Rigger text. Feel free to bring in ideas from our conversations.

    Ch. 6 "An Opportunity Full of Threats"

    How does the current pattern of Taiwanese investment/economic opportunities in the mainland compare with the 1980s and 1990s?

    How important is Taiwan to China's economy? How important is China to Taiwan's economy?

    What, if any, Taiwanese brands or companies did you see during our visit in China?

    Ch. 7 "Making Peace with the China Inside and the China Outside"

    What is the China inside? What did it mean to make peace with it?

    What is the China outside? Has Taiwan made peace with it?

    What did Lee Teng-hui do to
    a) focus on developing Taiwan?
    b) make clear that Taiwan was distinct?

    Shih Ming-teh's supporters say about Taiwan's "need" to declare independence? Does this make sense to you? To others?

    How do Chen Shui-bian's Five No's compare with Ma Ying-jeou's Three No's?

    #21906
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Through our many visits on the duration of the Taiwan leg of the trip we had the opportunity to be exposed to both the public and private avenues and how they tie into the Taiwanese and Chinese economies. Rigger discusses the interdependence of these economies on one another. I was surprised to discuss the proposals made on behalf of the Taiwan Environmental Protection Agency. Their initiatives have not only made a Taiwan and beautiful and safe place to live, but they have taken some of their “less” clean industries back to mainland china, where the same restrictions are not in place.
    In similar theme, recently opening up direct flights between Mainland China and Taiwan shows the ties, cultural, social, and economic. This small barrier shows the larger importance the two economies have on one another. Companies, such as Gin Star Entertainment, are branching out their market to the PRC. This speaks largely to the societal bonds, for nothing speaks to modernity like television and the internet.

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