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Rob_Hugo@PortNWI must say I was very interested in this morning's lecture about Chinese families on the move. I was unaware of the Hokou policies of employment. I can't imagine being a rural worker even in today's age. It really seems that you are at a great disadvantage not having work in the country, yet having trouble finding work in the city that will pay you regularly. The most discouraging part of the whole system is that you can't seem to get out of it. Without having a great education from living in the country as a child it seems impossible to have any special skills that might entitle you to an urban hokou. I still see the need for an education reform so that all children, no matter where they live, can have an equal education and learn the skills necessary to perhaps improve their own villages. Eventually there won't be enough work for all those who seek employment in the current cities. So with little employment in the country and in the city, then where will it come from?
AnonymousI agree with you. I think a great place to start is by providing quality education to (all) the youth. This way, at least they might have a chance at changing the cycle they seem to be tied to.
I was apalled that the government allowed the employers to get away with not paying the migrant workers' wages for over a year !!!! I also can't believe that the workers continue working for no pay. I can see them letting it get by for one month, maybe two! The fact that they just provide free labor without a fight also shows how their rights are so minimal, and they are probably scared to put up a fight. I hope that American companies are not behind any of that!
AnonymousIt seems that the hukuo system is inherently unfair in its restrictions on movement within the system. In a way, it seems similar to a caste system where you are born into your caste and there is little or no opportunity to move up.
It was encouraging to hear that people are being allowed a bit more freedom with permits to work in the city, but unfortunately, their only option is to split up their families and leave their children behind.
If the system is moving more and more toward capitalism, does this simply give the employers more opportunity to exploit the migrant workers?
AnonymousI also found this lecture to be very interesting. I had no idea that rural workers needed permits to move into and work in more urban areas. I just found it to be so unfair that you need certain skills to even get some kind of permit and then you have to leave. Also, I never really thought about migration within China and just thought more about the immigration of people into other countries such as the US. I knew that there was a lot of smuggling and trafficking going on, but I did not know about the horrible conditions that people had to endure to come into the US. Today's lecture really informed me about what people have to go through and endure to make better lives for themselves and their families.
AnonymousLike Geny, I also think of immigration rather than migration in China. I didn't know about horrible conditions people had to endure to come to the US until recently. Three weeks, my parents told us about the hardships they had to go through during their trip from Vietnam to Hong Kong, then to the Phillipines and finally the US. My parents said the boat were overcrowded with people. Often times people didn't have enough food. They told me horror stories about people being thrown overboard because they were ill. My parents said some people were afraid the sick people would cause the rest to get sick. We were on the boat for a month (my parents, my older sister (at the time 2 years old) and me (1 year old). Like the article we discussed in class, my parents had to pay these "snakehead" to travel to the US. My parents had to borrow money from relatives in China and Vietnam. My appreciation for my parents increased tremendously after hearing their story (even though it took them years to finally tell us a little about our family). I have learned so much about Chinese history just from Saturday's presentation, Professor Fan and Professor Cheng. I think I'm going to ask my parents more questions. 😀
AnonymousMchu
I am really touched by your family's story. The problems and hardships that people had coming to the US are heartwrenching and should be told. So many people have lost their lives and suffered. Please ask your parents to tell you the entire story.
Have you been to China yourself?
Melody
AnonymousI agree with everyone on the migrant workers in china. The hukuo system is really unfair.
I kept think though about how it is here. Many of my students parents are not legally here. Yes, they can go to school here, but they still face many problems. I have had students whose parents are deported.
I have a student who when to school here all of their life and doesn't have papers. She doesn't have any ties to her parents country. This student was very advanced. Then when it came time to go to college she found out she didn't have papers. This is actually very common. Luckily, a few years ago the State of California passed legislation that said if you have been in California school for more than 3 years you can go to college without paying out of state tuition. She can go to college. This student will not be able to get any financial aid. This could greatly effect her chances of graduating since she will have to totally support herself.
Down the line though she will still have problems because she still isn't legally here. Her and I joked about marrying her off to a nice young man so she could get papers.
Melody
AnonymousBack to China and migration. (I'm posting separately here, but the topic is slightly different than my other posts)
The long term effects of people 'temporarly' going to the city from the countryside can really change the countryside. There are villages in Mexico that are only inhabited by old peole and children. The parents are in the US working especially during picking season. In some ways the extended family has become more important.
I don't know if this will happen in China.
Also after the film, I kept wondering what would happen with the young girls when they returned to their village. Here they have gone from very isolated to seeing a different type of life. Are they going to be happy back in teh countrysided or are they going to want to se back in the city. I know they really don't have this option, but are they going to dream about going back. Just a thought.
Melody (a)
Anonymous2 things. #1 I saw this great documentary on PBS on Mexican migration to the US. I don't know the exact title, but It had to do with a place called Farmington in NY. Reading your posts and hearing today's lecture reminded me of it, because I had similar reactions. This video would be great to show in class.
We talk a lot about how unfair Hokou is, but I am hard pressed to think of any workable solution. I am interested in seeing what their government's plan for 2006 is.
DEAN
AnonymousI also agree that the Hukuo system in China seems quite unfair. The fact that you are considered a second class citizen merely because you are born to a family from a rural region is in itself an injustice. It seems to me that the China would prosper and make far greater gains if all of the children were educated. I have a tendency to be very skeptical and it sounds as though someone if making a lot of money off the backs of migrant workers. If the government takes care of the urban population in China, I think that they have an obligation to provide health care and other services for the families in rural areas.
AnonymousDean,
You seem to take the words out of my mouth. I think most people do recognize that these systems are unfair. However, when it comes down to paying for services, people don't want to pay for them. A fair comparison is the U.S. immigration situation which poses two problems - higher taxes and terrorism issues. In both cases, American citizens want to pay less taxes and stronger border control but that ususally entails stricter immigration policies and racial profiling...very tough issues
dave