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Rob_Hugo@PortNWWhat is the difference between a Caucasian speaking Mandarin and a Chinese speaking Mandarin?
This must be the worst joke I could pull, but the answer would be: One is respected & a sign of culture, knowledge, and worldliness. The latter is "expected".
I recently had a conversation with a few good classmates from our class and we were discussing our plans for the summer.
Letizia said something very funny. She answered, "I figured I might as well learn an Asian language since I have an Asian face".
Tianqui answered, "I plan on volunteering as a translator in the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, because I can speak French, English, and Mandarin: the three official languages of the Olympics."
This brought us to the question if speaking our own language (probably 2 or more), is expected more than respected? Many times, I have been approached by the older Chinese generation and have been mercilessly bombarded with questions I CAN UNDERSTAND but can not put to words without inserting some English into my sentences. Now we can all laugh at our "Chinglish". Worse, sometimes I fail to answer eloquently and I see disappointed faces asking me, "Are you Chinese? Why don't you speak your language?"
Lady, I'm Chinese-American, full A-B-C! I have two languages to learn, and the third is Spanish.
Usually I can barely make it past my name before these old ladies start tottering off into their Chinese braiding circles to pity/gossip over how so-and-so couldn't speak Mandarin.
I once had an English teacher who married a Chinese lady and spoke fluent Mandarin. He was Caucasian and taught Chinese students how to write effectively. Wow. See the ironic situation here? Numerous times I have read articles on top notch young businesspeople, and one of the most respected qualities is learning the Asian language, particularily Mandarin and/or Japanese. It seems as though fluency in an Asian language is dubbed as exotic, cultured, and respectful. Translators are available for business conversations and eliminate the need to learn a language in order to conduct a meeting, therefore, I believe learning an Asian language is more like a "badge of honor" rather than for practical purposes.
The most practical *joke* purpose should be familiar with us all >>> What/who the ladies doing nails are GOSSIPPING about. How to swear in another language & get away with it. How to say pick up lines.
Picture your kids 10+ years later. Will they speak the language that is in between becoming "expected" and/or "respected"? *Tianqui's cue*
-Amy
AnonymousThank you Amy for that insightful post...
As Amy was saying,
Picture your kids 10 years from now. I see my son or daughter pulling at my pant leg, staring curiously at a Chinese sign on a restaurant and asking, "Daddy, what does that say?" It would break my heart if I'd have to tell him, "sorry son, I don't know. you'll have to ask grandma." But what will I do if grandma no longer exists?
This is just one of the reasons I choose to learn Chinese. I would say I am at a advantage compared to ABCs. I lived in China until I was 5, so I can speak Chinese to get by. However, I know that my Chinese is still not proficient enough. I can't read newspapers. Often, I can't understand the Chinese news on TV. I love Chinese music, but I have to look at the english translation to understand exactly what they're talking about. Besides, I want to work in China in the future so I know I MUST learn Chinese.
I agree with Amy when she says that it is expected nowadays for Chinese kids to know Chinese. I am from a really Chinese area. We have a joke at my high school that our school's second language is Chinese. Scary enough, that is pretty accurate. Most of my Chinese friends and I went to Chinese school starting from kindergarten every friday for 2 hours. Most of us went because our parents made us. But hey, it was also fun to see your friends there too.
As kids started getting into jr. high and high school, many of them started dropping out of Chinese school. Many of these kids were the ones who spoke chinese in class, but still communicated with parents in english at home. They dropped out when they were old enough to decide for themselves how important it was to learn their native language.
Even in college, I see this trend. I am currently in Chinese 3A and know many students who are taking this course just to fulfill their language requirement. They will take Chinese to level 3, and stop because, whew, they're finally done! They probably chose to take Chinese as opposed to a language they learned in high school because, as Amy was saying, it is expected of Chinese students to learn Chinese. That, and also they prob. already know how to speak a little.
My point is, it's cool that Chinese kids are learning chinese. However, if the "learn chinese because you are chinese" culture prevails, that's all Chinese will be to them...another language they learn because it's expected. And most likely, their Chinese will never be good enough to read a newspaper. For me, I have a natural fascination with my culture and language. I have various practical reasons for learning Chinese, but I learn chinese first of all because I enjoy learning about my culture and speaking the language my ancestors and relatives speak.
[Edit by="tzhao on May 17, 10:01:33 PM"]What about you? What does speaking your native language mean to you?[/Edit]
AnonymousI've found that most of the students I know that speak Chinese still today were the ones that were forced to as children and can still hold on to basic conversational knowledge. One of the reasons why I think a lot of Asians can't speak their native language is if their parents became very assimilated to "white culture" or not. My grandmother lived with my family, and if I couldn't speak at least minimal Vietnamese then I would not be able to communicate with her at all. I see, however, that some of my cousins can't speak Vietnamese at all and their situation arose because there was no forced reason for learning Vietnamese. I kind of wish that my parents had forced me to attend Vietnamese school because I agree with Amy that there's this expectation for you to be fluent in your native language.. and there are so many times when I stumble over words and I see their faces grimace at my butchering of the language :}
Most likely my children won't be able to speak Vietnamese unless I decide to enroll them in a shcool (where they'd probably easily surpass my limited knowledge!).. but I do think it's really important to hold on to a part of our hertiage... i can't read vietnamese and there are so many vowels that my head spins just thinking about it... I think also only reason ABC's knowledge of their language is more limited than say, Hispanics, is because the language is sooo much harder (not so much Vietnamese as Chinese and the others) with all the different characters and words..
It does really annoy me at times, however, when everyone expects you to know PERFECT vietnamese/chinese/japanese/korean just because u have an asian face.. it seems like Asians just need SOMETHIGN to criticize otherwise they're not happy =/
this isn't really related.. but one time my sister was getting her nails done at a Vietnamese nail salon place and they started talking about her... i guess assuming she didn't know vietnamese =O needless to say they didn't get much tip..
AnonymousI tend to feel the same way about preserving my culture and my heritage through language so that when I have kids, I can teach them Chinese. I would feel like I deprived them of something crucial if I was unable to read something in Chinese when they asked. Then this lack of Chinese proficiency would pass on for more generations to come and I would feel incredibly guilty. It's not really that extreme, but it's still a scary feeling for me.
I always admire students that I see at UCLA who can speak fluent Mandarin since it is definitely a new experience for me to be around people my own age who know Chinese. My high school had very very few Chinese students, so I find it quite inspiring. I will be taking introductory Chinese here next year instead of Spanish, which I took in high school for 3 years because I really want to learn the language that I was actually pretty fluent in when I was around 4 years old.
I feel that it is definitely a step in the right direction for students of Chinese heritage to want to learn Chinese even if they only feel that they should because they were born Chinese. It's important that they at least recognize that they should do something about it, and not completely ignore their background. I dont' feel that they will treat Chinese as just another language; it should hold at least some special value in their hearts.
For me, besides the issue of future generations, I also want to learn so that I can communicate more effectively with my relatives, who speak no english at all, so they don't think i'm a mute when I go back. I usually have minimal trouble understanding conversations, but I have difficulty putting sentences together in my own words and of course reading and writing. I can't wait for the class to begin in the fall so I can start practicing with every chinese person I know. 😀
Anonymousinteresting topic! i was born in vietnam so my vietnamese was pretty fluent (or so i thought) until my korean/chinese friends started asking me about the meaning of certain viet words and i struggled to answer them with my broken vietnamese. if it's this hard for me, i cant imagine what it's like for those who were born here.
AnonymousI was born and raised in Missouri...yeah a state with a miniscule number of asians, and an asian community that is no where to be found. Growing up without much of a Vietnamese community or large family to speak with, my Vietnamese speaking skills were never strengthened. I'm sure that they allowed me to speak English more in the house because of the community we grew up in where everyone already did. When i moved to California...culture shock...I found myself wishing that my parents had forced me to speak Vietnamese more frequently with them growing up. I have a ton of family over here in CAlifornia, and I find myself struggling to carry on a conversation them. Also, I have made a lot of Vietnamese friends, and when I meet their parents, I wish that I was more fluent in order to make conversation with them. In ways, I'm almost embarrased that my speaking abilities are so meager, and I sometimes wish that my parents had forced me to go to Vietnamese school or learn the language more.
AnonymousWow, I don't even know how many times my grandparents have patronized me about not being able to speak the language. They called me a "yang guay zi" which means...somewhat of a banana but in a meaner tone. Not just to me, but to my brothers as well. Then they would blame my parents for not teaching us well, which is not their fault at all! We all grew up in America, were born in America, and learned the language. Yes my first language was Chinese and yes it sucks that I lost most of it. My family and I go over this issue a lot, about whether or not English should be the dominant language or Mandarin. My mom gets extremely upset because she is very traditional and shudders at the thought of our family speaking English all the time. Anyways, in terms of in the workplace, speaking Mandarin fluently is one of the most coveted attributes to have since China is a growing market economy. I believe that speaking both English and Mandarin and maybe some other language such as Spanish would carry you a lot further in the workforce these days. I am going to Taiwan for 2 months this summer, and I'm going to take some classes at the schools as well as Chinese at UCLA. Speaking Mandarin fluently again is really important to me because not only is it embarassing to have people make fun of you for not speaking your own language, but I also want to be fluent so that I can have that extra quality that makes me stand out from others.
Anonymousoh I wanted to add something else to the post. Remember in cluster when our professors would write characters and speak the language and quote different historical events in Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese/Japanese? I always felt really embarrassed because I grew up with the language! But I didn't know half of the stuff that they knew about the language. And how to write it as well.
Anonymousi feel exactly the same way about this topic. i was born in Hong Kong and lived there til i was 8, so the idea of preserving my native language and culture is very importatn to me. this is part of the reason why i've always believed that i would date and marry someone who knows cantonese. i thought that would be ideal because that way, not only will we be able keep the language alive by teaching it to our children, but it's the only way that his family would be able to communicate with mine. My grandmas, aunts, and uncles all speak cantonese. Those of my family who DO speak english are able to do so on a very limited level, and at family gatherings and family dinners, the language dominating conversation is of course.... CANTONESE! both my older cousins who have steady boyfriends and girlfriends are dating someone who also speaks cantonese. which brings me to the problem of my boyfriend being current. now while i love him to death and could care less what nationality he is, i can't help but wonder how he would fit into my family and me his. how would his mom who speaks mainly korean get along with my mom who speaks mainly cantonese or even worse, my grandma who speaks ONLY cantonese? it would be like, as we say in Chinese " as if a chicken was talking to a duck".
AnonymousI was born and raised in America, and if my grandma did not move to America from Hong Kong to help take care of me as a child, I probably would not know much Cantonese. While my dad did live in Hong Kong until he was 25, he and my mom rarely speak Chinese to each other except for special circumstances. Some of my Asian friends look for someone who can speak their language (in a mate) so that they will be able to preserve their heritage better. However, because my family is more Americanized than many Asian American families, I feel that marrying someone just to preserve the language is not important to me. However, I would definitely like to pass down the language to my kids and maybe have them attend Chinese school. Hopefully either my parents or my future husband's parents will be able to teach the kids Chinese.
Anonymoushmm.. since i am chinese vietnamese i speak chu chow. which is a smaller chinese dialect than cantonese. there are chu chow speaking people in vietnamese and cambodia as well. anyway my parents decided to teach me chu chow when i was younger instead of mandarin. my parents are fluent in cantonese/mandarin/chu chow my dad is fluent in english and french and my mom's english is ok.. but she is fluent in french and vietnamese. so out of everything that they could have spoke to me.. they chose the least used language chu chow. which sucks for me cuz its hard to find chu chow people who actually speak chu chow. and i too am upset that i wasnt forced into chinese school. i plan on taking chinese next year, and probably will visit china and hong kong with my uncle. so being chu chow and being surrounded by all the languages that my parents and my family spoke i can understand a little bit here and there for almost all the languages.. its pretty easy to understand cantonese but its hard for me to say some stuff because i cant pronounce "I" correctly. from chu chow it is easy to translate into cantonese..and from cantonese it is possible to translate to mandarin.. but it would just take awhile to translate all over the place. for my future i think it would be important to expose my kids to mandarin and chinese/vietnamese culture. its weird because although i dont like chu chow because it is rare i like it because me and my cousins can speak it to each other and hardly anyone will know what we are saying. I would want my children to grow up speaking chu chow.. but then the pressure of speaking 2-3 languages fluently... thats hard. i mean its already hard now with 2.
was it just me or when professor dutton pronounced nguyen..did it not seem different to anyone else?