Home Forums Core Seminars Modern East Asia, Fall 2021 2. October 13 - China: From Monarchy to Republic

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #8571
    cgao
    Spectator

    Speaker: Clayton Dube, USC


    19th Century China

     

     

    This session looks at China's long 19th century. The first lecture focuses on internal and external challenges to the Manchu-dominated status quo. It covers the period 1800-1875 and many themes including

    a) the difference between economic growth (China had a lot of that) and economic development (there was not enough of that)
    b) the interplay between domestic problems and outside threats (Opium War, Taiping Civil War, Arrow War)
    c) efforts undertaken by the Manchus and local elites to address perceived threats

    Required readings for the first lecture 

    China: Fall of the Qing & the Early Republic

     

     

    The second lecture looks at the last 40 or so years of the Manchu Qing dynasty and the first 15 years of the Republican era (1875-1924). The themes examined include:

    a) efforts to strengthen and reform China's technological base and state institutions, including the influence of those with foreign experiences
    b) the shock of war with a modernizing Japan and backlash against reformers
    c) how China backed into creating a Republic, the first in Asia
    d) the fragmentation of China under warlords, continued abuse by outside powers and the creation of rival political parties

    For the second lecture and our discussion session, please prepare to take one side in the "encounter" described in the attached file, "To Save China." Plan to be a self-strengthener, a reformer or a revolutionary.

    Recommended readings

    • To Save China
    • Self-strengthener, Zhang Zhidong
    • Self-strengthener, Li Hongzhang
    • Reformer, Kang Youwei
    • Reformer, Liang Qichao
    • Revolutionary, Tongmenhui
    • Revolutionary, Sun Yatsen
    • Revolutionary, Qiu Jin

    The attached readings will be helpful in preparing for our encounter. You are NOT expected to read all of them, but you may wish to read the readings on "the side" you are taking. And you may wish to scan the readings for your opponents. Please feel free to highlight aspects from any of these readings in the forum.

    OPTIONAL resources: 

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #46270
    clay dube
    Spectator

    For our 10/13 session, please prepare to take one of the following three sides.

    Encounter: Can We Save the Empire? Should We Save the Empire?

    The Qing Empire and its peoples face critical choices. Foreign powers have invaded, forcing us to permit them to live amongst us along our coast, promoting their beliefs, sullying our empire. Rebellions have raged in different places, driven by different forces but always challenging Qing rule and producing instability. How are we to cope? What can and should be done? For the purposes of this discussion, we’ll compress the period 1860-1910 and bring together groups that arose in different places and situations to discuss how to deal with the external and internal threats. What are the most pressing issues? How can they be dealt with? What changes are needed to ensure survival? Ci Xi, the Empress Dowager (Tz’u Hsi 慈禧, 1835-1908) will preside over the discussion.

    Three groups will participate, each with their own assessment of our challenges and how best to cope with them.
    Leaders of the groups:
    Li Hongzhang (Li Hung-chang 李鴻章, 1823-1901)
    Kang Youwei (K’ang Yu-wei 康有為, 1858-1927)
    Qiu Jin (Ch’iu Chin 秋瑾, 1875-1907)

    #46319
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    At the end of video #1, Professor Dube asked us to consider how to explain to students the internal and external forces influencing China in the 19th century.

    In my classes I review the Century of Humiliation, and the associated external imperialistic influences on China, and I have attached an edited PDF lecture below FYI.  

    The reason I teach this topic is because it explains the background to the current political/economic conflicts. The Opium Wars were about trade imbalances and the current US-China conflict is also about trade imbalances.    

    Feel free to offer comments or to use in your teaching.  

    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #46314
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    Understanding the difference between economic growth and economic development is central to understanding why some economies stagnate and other economies increase their per capita output and achieve economic development. This insight helps explain the relative difference in the performance of the Chinese economy and the Western European economies from 1800 to present times. In particular, this explains how the Western European countries with their relatively small populations could rapidly grow their economies and achieve dominant global power over the 1800-2000 period. This also explains the relative decline of the Western powers since 2000 compared to China which has had faster productivity growth and economic development.

    Economic Growth + Productivity Increase = Economic Development

    Example 1: In country A, both population and GDP double in one century. Economic growth is achieved but not economic development because the GDP per capita is unchanged (no productivity increase per capita).

    Example 2: In country B, population doubles and GDP quadruples in one century. Economic development is achieved because the GDP per capita is doubled. 

    Chart 1, attached below, shows these concepts. From 1800-1960 the Chinese per capita GDP changed very little. Economic output rose mostly in line with more labor inputs, so there was no per capita productivity gain or economic development. After 1980 productivity rose steadily as China embraced economic change and modernization.

    China's current President, Xi Jinping, understands this relationship which is why he is promoting STEM education and scientific research to sustain GDP growth and economic development despite a shrinking labor force due to population aging and the decrease in the birth rate observed since the 1970s. 

    Also attached are 2 publications from the US Department of Labor that explain productivity. These are very clear and designed for K-12 usage.

    References

    https://www.bls.gov/k12/productivity-101/

    Maddison Historical Statistics. https://www.rug.nl/ggdc/historicaldevelopment/maddison/?lang=en

     
    Attachments:
    You must be logged in to view attached files.
    #46349
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Hi Folks,
    Here's the line up of contending ideas for our encounter on 10/13:

    Self-Strengtheners

    Jenn
    Bin
    Todd
    Anastasia

    Reformers

    Crystal
    Peggy
    Betsy
    Yasmin
    Revolutionaries

    Kayla
    Jennifer
    Allen
    Miguel

    #46355
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    1. Financial Requirements of the Treaty of Nanjing (1842)

    The 1842 Treaty of Nanjing required China to pay 21 million silver taels to Britain in reparations for the opium that was seized and destroyed by Commissioner Lin Zexu. The reparations bill is equal to about $642 million in current prices (1 Tael = 1.33 ounce, 1 ounce = $23.00).

    The Chinese seizure of the opium was legal because opium was illegal in China…as it was in Britain. In other words, the treaty required the innocent Chinese to repay the guilty British for the punishment they received after violating drug laws in China and ignoring repeated warnings to stop the drug trade.  

    2. Beneficiaries of the Treaty of Nanjing (1842)

    The first benefiary of the treaty was the British merchants that gained access to 5 port cities to expand trade. 

    The next beneficiary was the British government Treasury. The Treasury benefitted because the UK-China trade balance was improved as merchants sold more opium and goods in China in exchange for silver. This increased trade more than offset the British purchases of Chinese products such as tea and porcelain. The British thinking was “mercantilist”; reflecting the view that international trade should promote trade surpluses that would result in a net inflow of silver which would financially strengthen the exporting country.

    Every other country that imposed similar treaties on China also benefitted. In total, 21 Treaties were imposed by 19 countries. Britain (8), Russia (7), France (6), USA (3), Japan (3). 

    3. Why Was the Treaty of Nanjing Unequal

    The treaty was unequal because it granted rights to British in China without any benefits for China in the UK. The British got access to many ports to trade and legal extraterritoriality for British subjects which gave them immunity from Chinese laws.

    The 1844 US-China treaty of Wangxia, which copied the treaty of Nanjing, was similarly unequal. As an example, while the 1844 Treaty of Wangxia was in force allowing Americans to trade and pursue missionary work in China, the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act restricted Chinese immigration into the United States. This was blatantly unequal.

    4. How To Teach about The Humiliation of the Treaty of Nanjing?

    The Treaty of Nanjing was an extremely important event in Chinese history. It was a huge humiliation that has since influenced many Chinese nationalists.

    I have taught this in the conventional way, but have been trying to think of a way to make the Chinese experience more meaningful. The following is a way that may engage students.

    4.1 Compare the Opium War to the Current USA-Mexican Cartel Drug War

    A hypothetical modern comparative example would be if Mexico attacked the US and required the US to sign a treaty requiring the actions listed below. Each of these concessions have a direct parallel in the Treaty of Nanjing.

    Hypothetical US-Mexico Sinaloa Treaty (based on 1842 Nanjing Treaty)

    The USA hereby agrees to undertake the following actions as reparations for the actions taken against importers of illegal drugs into the USA.

    1) Repay the Sinaloa Cartel for all drug shipments seized by the US;

    2) Allow the Sinaloa Cartel to open and staff 5 distribution centers in US cities/ports;

    3) Exempt the cartel members from future US laws (allow extraterritoriality);

    4) Release all cartel members from US prisons; and

    5) Permanently cede US territory to Mexico for use by its cartels and military

    *********

    #46356

    I wonder if a simulation would help students understand the difference.  

    1.  Half the students begin with  a few coins.  Each "day" or round of the game they complete a simple puzzle to earn their daily coins. This represents the economy.  Say 10 students "earning" 1 coin apiece.  Total economic production would be the total number of coins earned.

    2. Then the other students join the group, representing population growth. Now the puzzles are more difficult, but all students still complete them to earn their coins. The total number of coins being earned in higher, but the coins per person are no different.

    I think a struggle for students will be how population growth intersects with a limit of resources. What happens when there isn't enough land, or water, to grow food for a growing population? Will technological innovations just keep up? Will people fall further into poverty?

    #46357

    This is the most one-sided, ridiculous document I have ever read, although it does remind me of a recent email from a parent... I digress.  The Chinese have to pay, and give up Hong Kong, and agree to let British run their own affairs as a way of ending a "misunderstanding."  There is nothing about the British paying for the lives destroyed by opium they brought, or for taking any responsibility for any of the issues.  I think it would be interesting to compare this document to the Treaty of Versailles, and look at how China and Germany were treated by the military powers that overcame them.

     

    #46360
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Antonette - self-strengtheners

    David - reformers

    Amanda - revolutionaries

    #46361
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Jennifer - you've captured the sense of outrage that many felt. This was the first of what became known as unequal treaties. Additional ones were imposed on China, but also on Japan. And Japan sought to impose its own later on China (https://china.usc.edu/japanese-government-%E2%80%9Ctwenty-one-demands%E2%80%9D-april-26-1915).

    In 1919 the Soviet Union renounced Russia's unequal treaties with China, but then forged its own to secure control over the Chinese Eastern Railway in Northern Manchuria. That railway was the single largest railway concession in China. In 1925, the Soviet Union signed a deal with Japan recognizing Japan's control over the South Manchuria Railway. Soviet propaganda always called on foreign powers to emulate it's renunciation of unequal treaties, but it was quite happy to secure its own privileges.

    The US follow-up to the Treaty of Nanjing was the Treaty of Wangxia: https://china.usc.edu/treaty-wangxia-treaty-wang-hsia-may-18-1844

    #46363
    Crystal Bok
    Spectator

    The Treaty of Nanjing is a single-beneficiary "agreement" that establishes British freedom and power in China. This treaty throws open China's trade markets and ports, forcing China to surrender sovereignty over its economic freedoms within its borders. Moreover, several of its territories are seized (Hong Kong "in perpetuity") and held until China fulfills financial compensations. Not only that, but China's own legal and political authority is diminished by the treaty's condition that all British subjects held for any reason be released. This kind of absolute and unconditional amnesty to all parties involved with the British further diminishes the Chinese authority to govern and regulate its own people. The treaty is rightfully an unequal treaty because it clearly establishes the conditions for a new power paradigm. 

    #46364
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    Summary

    Foreign powers attacked China many times during the Century of Humiliation (1839-1949). After at least 4 conflicts, China was required to pay reparations to the foreign countries.

    From 1842-1901, these reparations totaled 677 million taels of silver equal to 27,916 tons worth about $US 20.69 billion.

    Note that the primary currency unit then used in China was silver taels. 1 Tael = 1.33 ounce or 37.88 grams. As of 10/13/2021, 1 silver ounce = $US 23.00

    The value of the territorial and trade concessions China was forced to make are in addition to this huge amount.   

    Details

    1. The Treaty of Nanjing (August 29, 1842) required China to pay 21 million silver taels to Britain in reparations for the opium that was seized and destroyed. This is equal to about $642 million in current prices.

     

    1. The Treaty of Tianjin (6/1858) required China to pay 6 million silver taels in reparations for costs incurred in warfare against China - 4 million for Britain, 2 million for France. This is equal to about $184 million in current prices.

     

    1. The Treaty of Shimonoseki (April 17, 1895) signed after the Sino-Japanese War required China to pay 200 million silver taels to Japan.  This is equal to about $6.1 billion in current prices.

     

    1. The Boxer Protocol (September 7, 1901) required China to pay the Eight-Nation Alliance 450 million silver taels.  This is equal to about $13.76 billion in current prices.
    #46366
    Betsy Ures
    Spectator

    The "unequal treaty" begins by outlining British rights in China. Persons from England and Ireland are not subject to Chinese laws when in China. British subjects are also allowed to live in China to carry out Mercantile pursuits. Hong Kong is established as a port for the British so they may careen and refit their Ships. Establish a repayment of 21 Million dollars for various assaults on Britain. A tariff system is established. British forces will no longer stop Chinese trade through military force.

    The treaty is very generous and beneficial for Brittain. It seems beneficial for the British merchants that can move into China as well as the British governemnt. China has to pay huge sums of money to the British Royal Family. China has to pay 21 million dollars and cede land to establish a port, so the agreement is extremely unequal.

    #46367
    Betsy Ures
    Spectator

    The idea of comparing the Treaty of Nanjing to the Treaty of Versaille is very thought-provoking! The ripple effects of these treaties seem far more dangerous than I first thought. 

    #46368

    Here in Washington we just had Indigenous People's Day, and my class talked about why we don't "celebrate" Columbus Day anymore (although most of my students didn't remember ever doing so).  I think it would be interesting to compare the Boxer rebeliions frustrations about foreign missionaries to the missionaries who ran schools for Native American children in the United States.  How does it feel when someone tries to convert you?  I realize the power relationship of the missionaries in the US were very different from those in China, but the very idea of trying to impose one set of cultural beliefs on another is interesting.  As we study the spread of Islam through trade in North and East Africa, we also looked at how some traders might convert to Islam because it was good for business, not because they had a religious epiphany. It's a difficult subject to discuss with 15 year olds; many of them are deeply religious, and find it insulting that some would practice a religion out of convenience rather than belief.  

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 28 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.