Home Forums Core Seminars Modern East Asia, Fall 2021 2. October 13 - China: From Monarchy to Republic

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  • #46369
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    1. The problems facing China

    The problems facing China are primarily industrial backwardness, military weakness, and the lack of modern western education.

    Industrial and military weakness is why China was humiliated in the 2 Opium wars and forced to make many land concessions to foreigners.

    Industrial and military weakness is why China has had so many domestic rebellions that the central government has been unable to control & suppress (e.g., Taiping, Nian, the Muslim revolts, Boxer, etc.).

    The Imperial system and the Confucian social order are NOT the problems that require reforms or revolutionary transformation.  The Imperial system and the Confucian order are the essence of China that should be retained and complemented by new learning to strengthen China.

    2. Solutions to the problems

    We self-strengtheners want “Chinese Learning as Substance, Western Learning for application”. This will preserve the essence of Chinese civilization while adding superior foreign technology and methods to make China strong.

    Strengthening the economy and military does NOT require a revolution to overthrow the imperial system. Nor do we recommend substantially changing the Confucian social order. Our only recommendation is to add western learning to the imperial examinations so that future officials will better understand how we can strengthen by adopting the best practical ideas from abroad.

    The imperial system can provide national leadership and political stability so we disagree with the revolutionaries that want to discard thousands of years of our historical and cultural learning.

    For example, Britain has become the strongest imperial power under the reign of Queen Victoria that lasted from 1837 to 1901. The Japanese successfully modernized after the 1868 Meiji restoration by restoring and elevating the stature of the emperor. Most European powers that invade China also have strong monarchies. Therefore, our view is that since the strong barbarian nations have imperial systems together with industrial modernization, this international experience shows the merit of maintaining our imperial system as well.

    3. How to implement the Self-Strengthening solutions?

    Self-Strengtheners say China should modernize by taking the following steps:

    1. Use Chinese learning as substance, western learning for applications
    2. Preserve the essence of Chinese civilization such as Confucianism, Imperial system   
    3. Promote the wealth and power of the state (the Legalists were right about that)
    4. Add western learning to the imperial exams
    5. Borrow from the west but do not rely on the west
    6. Educate modern youth in foreign languages and science
    7. Build schools in China to teach self-strengthening methods
    8. Send Chinese youth abroad to acquire military learning (to US and Germany)
    9. Build a modern army based on professionalism, not patronage & nepotism
    10. Open military academies to professionalize the military
    11. Make modern armaments in China, build modern arsenals
    12. Give governmental assistance to build new industry (e.g., shipping, mining)
    13. Adopt western railroads and shipping to promote industry (as Japan did after 1868)

    Conclusion: With new learning from abroad, combined with modern methods, China can regain its strength and put an end to foreign humiliations.

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    #46371
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Hi Folks,
    For the late Qing dynasty and for the 1911 Revolution, here are some outstanding resources. The first two are great traditional narrative histories. Many will be available in large public libraries and all should be in academic libraries.

    Platt, Stephen. Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom, Knopf, 2012. (About the Taiping rebellion and much more.)
    Platt, Stephen. Imperial Twilight, Knopf, 2018. (About the Amherst mission to China, the Opium War and much more.)

    Esherick, Joseph. The Origins of the Boxer Rebellion, University of California Press, 1987.
    Esherick, Joseph. Reform and Rebellion in China, 2nd edition, University of Michigan Press, 2002.

    Elman, Benjamin. Civil Service Examinations and Meritocracy in Late Imperial China, Harvard University Press, 2013. (free sample)

    Marks, Robert. China: An Environmental History, 2nd edition, Rowman and Littlefield, 2017.

    Ebrey, Patricia. Women, the Family in Chinese History, Routledge, 2002. (available for free download, with registration: https://www.academia.edu/42670537/Women_and_the_Family_in_Chinese_History?auto=download)

    #46372
    clay dube
    Spectator

    First, thanks to Todd and others for brainstorming on this and other applications of this simulation. I find that having to present the arguments of another really causes students to engage with them. Years after a class I taught at UCLA, a former student came up to me and said, "I'm Mencius." Preparing to represent that 4th century BCE philosopher was clearly a highlight of the course for him. Obviously, allowing folks more preparation time and allowing students to share ideas about their camp's concerns and the weaknesses of the others further deepens the learning. You might also use "Each One, Teach One" to have the students create and present mini-lessons on their camp's positions.

    Second, there are the usual group assignment hazards. You have to guard against free riders and rein in some who really like to perform. But the bigger hazard is the danger of inaccurate representations, so you have to intervene to correct errors and to get clarity.

    I think the payoff for students in these kinds of activities is worth the investment of class time. Students who may be more graphically oriented could be asked to create campaign posters or the like. I've found that after the first such effort with a class that students become quicker and better at the necessary learning and presenting. Those skills are readily transferred in other spaces and with other tasks.

    #46373
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    Professor: Can I ask what east asia survey textbooks you would recommend for HS teachers (eg, grades 10-12)? Most teachers are too busy to read 20 books on east asia but might want to invest in a couple of survey books that will aid their teaching for many years. 

    thank you

     

    #46374
    clay dube
    Spectator

    Todd, thanks for asking. Below are my favorites. None is perfect. I've added Amazon links, but you should buy or borrow them wherever it is convenient for you.

    For comprehensive coverage of East Asia. It will eventually be surpassed, but the best work is
    Ebrey and Walthall, East Asia: A Cultural, Social and Political History, 3rd edition (2013)

    Single volume: https://www.amazon.com/East-Asia-Cultural-Political-History/dp/1133606474/ref=pd_sbs_3/140-7090806-8919865?pd_rd_w=MkUJg&pf_rd_p=690958f6-2825-419e-9c16-73ffd4055b65&pf_rd_r=W0WFVM9EQ33MTYF3Y1AG&pd_rd_r=30b0b535-38a9-46bb-a2f1-7d67f525bb8a&pd_rd_wg=Kv8pj&pd_rd_i=1133606474&psc=1

    The pre-1800 half of the book: https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Modern-East-Asia-Cultural-Political-dp-1133606512/dp/1133606512/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

    The post-1600 half of the book: https://www.amazon.com/Modern-East-Asia-1600-Political/dp/1133606490/ref=pd_sbs_2/140-7090806-8919865?pd_rd_w=mqqYr&pf_rd_p=690958f6-2825-419e-9c16-73ffd4055b65&pf_rd_r=WZZREXVC5VB4K2QFW5B1&pd_rd_r=9fa75819-d65a-43f2-9316-95b0a531dffb&pd_rd_wg=FylVb&pd_rd_i=1133606490&psc=1

    For China:

    Mitter, Modern China: A Very Short Introduction https://www.amazon.com/Modern-China-Short-Introduction-Introductions/dp/0198753705/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=rana+mitter&qid=1634334287&s=books&sr=1-4

    Spence, The Search for Modern China, 3rd edition: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Modern-China-Third/dp/0393934519/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=spence+modern+china&qid=1634333825&s=books&sr=1-1

    For Japan:
    Friday, ed., Japan Emerging: Premodern History to 1850: https://www.amazon.com/Japan-Emerging-Premodern-History-1850/dp
    /0813344832

    Gordon, A Modern History of Japan, 3rd edition: https://www.amazon.com/Modern-History-Japan-Tokugawa-Present/dp/0190920556/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2BH60HP9AQEJH&dchild=1&keywords=modern+history+of+japan+gordon&qid=1634333691&s=books&sr=1-1

    #46375

    My 10th grade team is putting together a small unit on treaties. These will help!

     

    #46378

    I appreciate the list of textbooks. While I enjoyed the simulation because I like to take on historic roles, I felt I lacked background in the overall subject. 

    I really enjoyed the "what-if" discussion and how that applies to other parts of history. I teach about WWI and WWII knowing how they will end.  I describe growing up near a nuclear sub base at the end of the cold war and NOT knowing how that was going to end.  I think trying to separate ourselves from the knowledge of the end and focusing on the feelings and ideas in the moment is valuable.  I also teach English, and it's very different to read a novel or watch a play production knowing the end.  I think about our WWI unit a documentary we show where the soldiers are so anxious to fight. I think trying to see the war from their eyes, as opposed to our own, would be valuable for the students. 

    #46390
    Todd Rutley
    Spectator

    I have been reading "Ebrey and Walthall, East Asia: A Cultural, Social and Political History" since I took your spring 2021 class. I find the book's layout and writing style to be exceptionally clear. Great recommendation.

    The first edition of the History of Japan book by Andrew Gordon, in PDF, is free on academia.edu:  http://www.academia.edu/30222567/A_Modern_History_of_Japan_From_Tokugawa_Times_to_the_Present

    The Instructor and student Resources for the 4th Edition of A Modern History of Japan, which includes chapter PowerPoints is FREE with registration at: https://learninglink.oup.com/access/gordon-4e

     

    #46393
    Antonette Pelaez
    Spectator

    1. What sorts of problems might arise for the Manchu Qing rulers if they are not able to expand the government? 

    I think that if Manchu Qing rulers were not able to expand their government, they could easily be overthrown by their formidable rivals, the Mongols in the Zunghar state. Thus, in the early 17th century, the Manchus conquered and eliminated the Zunghar state, and declared the founding of the Qing dynasty. They created a powerful military state and expanded their territory to become China's largest enduring empire which in now called the Republic of China. 

    2. What were the financial requirements of the agreement? Who might be the beneficiaries of this agreement? What is it about this agreement that leads to label it an "unequal treaty"? 

    Often after a military defeat, a series of treaties were signed between the Qing dynasty government and various Western powers, Russia Empire and the Empire of Japan. Most treaties contain a one-sided term agreement requiring China to surrender land, pay compensations, open treaty ports to foreigners and grant extraterritorial privileges to foreign citizens. The "unequal treaty"  became associated with the concept of China's "century of humiliation". 

    3. The legacy of the unequal treaties in China, Japan and Korea is significant, but not widely appreciated in the U.S. How might you help students learn something about these treaties and how the treaties (long since disavowed) may affect perceptions of foreigners in those countries? How might the legacy of war and privilege have affected perceptions of missionaries and their messages? 

    Teaching our children that all wars and all forms of disputes have consequences. I think that when a country is defeated, it can be completely understandable and acceptable to pay the price of defeat, which usually could be whatever terms the victorius party agreed on. 

    When the two opium wars ended, its treaties opened China to missionaries. Some missionaries believed that the opuim wars might be part of God's plan to make China a Christian nation. The first British protestant missionary to arrive in China was Robert Morrison. Morrison together with other missionaries translated the scriptures to educate Chineses women, compiled a Chinese-English dictionary and played a major role in campaigns against opuim and foot binding. 

    4. How can you introduce students to the complex mix of trends that affected China during the 19th century? Could this help them better understand the world we live in? Would thinking about the variety of factors in a family help? Even small communities have internal dynamics and  experience pressure from the outside. 

    China's population increased to 450 million or more in the middle of the 19th century and the results were poorer rural population, land and food shortages or even famine, heavy taxes imposed by the government and inflation. We can teach children that in comparison with today's global scenario, increasing population can bring about many economic, social and political problems. In our generation, we have the same problems but different century. 

    5. Why was China's defeat by Japan in 1895 so traumatic? What comparisons or activities might help your students grasp this? 

    The war between China and Japan in 1895 became so traumatic because when China was defeated, this marked the emergence of Japan as a major world power. Also this defeat demontrated the weakness of the Chinese empire. 

    6. Why did some Chinese conclude that their culture, their systems needed to change? How might you help students brainstorm on ways to communicate perceptions of a) problems b) the ideal society and state c) how to get from China is to where they want it to be? what activities may work with your students? 

    I am always in favor of change. I believe in an old cliche stating " if things does not work, its time to change it". When Qing rule fell into decline, the Chinese population were concerned about many things and so they wanted change. These factors incluide: the people did not like the idea that there were a numbe rof foreign invasion into Chinese territory, Imperial China was forced to relinquish control of some of its territory and the desire to see a unified China. 

    We teach our students to not to be afraid of change. We teach them to participate in political and social issues/problems in their communties because they are the future. They help create a healthy society. My thinking is dividing the class into smaller groups of 4 or 5. This activity provides opportunity for each student to vebalize their own thoughts and opinion, and also participate in an open group discussion. It boosts their self esteem and help improve socialization skills as well. 

    7. In what ways did the New Culture Movement and the May Fourth Movement challenge the status quo? Why did some highlight roles  for democracy and science? In the early 1920's, China is fragmented and rival political parties are forming with their proposed solutions. Why did Communists and the Nationalists both adopt the methods of Lenin? How were their aims and worries similar or different? 

    In 1910 and 1920's, the New Culture Movement became popular in china because they want to promote new ideas and culture based on western ideals like democracy and science. But I think it did not work. 

    In an effort and desire of the Chinese population to unity China, they chose to follow the communism form of government. In a communist government, there is a common ownership and absence of social classes, money and state. 

     

    #46394
    Antonette Pelaez
    Spectator

    How is it living in a communist controlled society where obviously there are many restrictions? 

    #46430
    David Walsh
    Spectator

    Your question reminds me of what an older Chinese friend of mine once told me.   She said : "Spring Festival (a very big Chinese Cultural tradition) has changed a lot from her generation (coming-of-age in the 70s and 80s) to her grandaughter's generation growing up on the 2010s."  As a more general point, from my experience living in CHina, I would say that feelings of Nostalgia towards the Mao years are not totally rare or uncommon among older CHinese living in the 2000s, and yet (in my experience) the Chinese, in general, are decidedly forward thinking and optimisitic-you might say progressive or reformist or adaptive- it's not like anyone yearns to return to those bad old Communist days of yore in today's China, and perhaps one could find similar attitudes  in sampls of the attitudes of present-day Fililpino(a)s towards their country's (very different than the Chinese) past. I say that with the caveat that new trends and currents may have emerged in China during the Covid period, and under the extension of the Xi Jinping-led administration, though I can't see Chinese political orientations and views changing that much (in the general population) in such a short period of time.   I am no expert on this, but I regard much of Xi's policy reform in the later 2000s as merely tinkering within the post-Mao capitalist-cum-commmunist, rather centralist, frame whose ground work was laid by Deng Xiaoping around the time I was born (1981).  The existence of China just is, ipso facto, a plausible challenge to the idea that democracy means contestation among political parties at all echelons.   Apart from that obvious conflict (about whether democracy needs to be universalized) , I don't see that the United States (or other Western countries) has/have reason to be in conflict with China in International Politics, although it's true that many sensible people tend to conceive of the International environment in such Machiavellian terms (reminding me almost of Social Darwinisim) in many contexts.  There is a sense in which not only China and the United States but many countries today are too-big-to-fail and so less likely to engage in largescale, potentially pointless, political protest compared to what might have seemed almost normal at the time of the Cultural Revolution (the late 60s in China) among people who lived through the Great Leap Forward.  Footnote: phennomena such as the (Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward and openings of the 1980s obviously were experienced in very different ways in different areas of such a diverse country as China (though in some ways China can seem rather uniform today and this is a partly legacy of the Communist years as well as of earlier strata).  

    #46619

    In reviewing the debate we had between the three views in China (revolutionaries, reformers, self-strengtheners) I want to try a similar activity with my seniors.  The idea of deciding HOW to change a society might be good for students about to enter college or launch themselves in the workplace, and by the end of the year another writing assignment will not be not welcomed.  I could provide some of the basics from these readings, but encourage students to think more broadly. Do we change countries, or institutions, or businesses, as revolutionaries? as reformers? as self-strengtheners. I think the intellectual exercise would be good. It also made me think of the early days of the American Colonies. Even those unhappy with the British king did not necessarily want rebellion. In the end, are we the US, Canada or France?

    #46644
    Kayla Kolean
    Spectator

    I agree. I was very surprised at the request to have China turn over Hong Kong so that the British would have a place to harbor and fix up their ships. Wow! I was thinking of having students look at treaties like this to see if there are one-sided treaties like this one and more fair treaties. How did your students' small treaty lesson go?

    -Kayla Kolean

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