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clay dubeFeel free to discuss these philosophies and how to teach about them in the Asia in My Classroom forum, but if you may also want to use this space here to discuss the particulars of our debate.
clay dube[I sent this by email also, but it may be that this did not reach you.]
We were only able to briefly review several important points for each of the four philosophies. Through the primary source documents in the red curriculum guide, those contained in the Ebrey Chinese Civilization reader, and (if you are so inclined) in the EWP East Asia textbook, you’ll be able to gain a sense of the richness of these teachings and how they are intertwined, how their advocates sought to address the problems they identified and realize, in some cases, shared aims.
If we had more time to cover the schools and for the debate itself, I’d have an elaborate debate format, with each group making presentations on several themes, each would also have a hatchet-man/woman whose responsibility would be to attack the perceived flaws in others groups’ thinking. We don’t have enough time to prepare and coordinate in this way, so we have to take a more informal approach. Please look at the following preamble and focus questions as you get ready for our debate on Tuesday, Oct. 11.
Encounter: A Hundred Schools of Thought Contend
In capitals throughout the region rulers are consulting their advisors. It is a time of crisis, governments are crippled by corruption and war/war preparation is never-ending. States join schemes against other states and powerful families plot with others to improve their own positions. Little concern is shown common people. The elite tends to see them as a resource to be managed and marshalled in struggle against one's enemies. Commoners can only resist by running away. And they are doing this in great numbers, fleeing greedy lords and officials and brutal armies.
What has led to this danger? Technology has advanced so much. Agriculture has never been so productive. Our cities are sites of terrific trade (aided by new means of exchange) and places of a great cultural flowering. There is dance, music, and scholarly investigation.
But at the same time, weapons have been made even more lethal. Armies are larger and the devastation of war is greater than ever. Small states are being devoured by the large. Or they engage in secret diplomacy and espionage to undermine their neighbors.
In the past, in the days of the sage kings, our ancestors did not have to endure such chaos. There was order. There was peace. There was prosperity. Where have we gone wrong?
At our next session, devotees of Confucianism, Mohism, Daoism, and Legalism will gather to reflect on the desperate situation that has emerged. They will engage in a debate over what should be done to overcome this crisis.
Focus Questions
Ideologies have to provide three essential elements:
1. A description of how we arrived at the present situation (a history?) – what’s the problem(s)?
2. A description (proscription) of what should be – how things ought to be.
3. A description of what should be done to move from 1 to 2 – an action plan.
Begin your debate preparation by thinking about how your school of thought addresses these needs.
In the debate, I’ll ask questions of each school and you may ask questions of each other. In general, accent the positive in your doctrine, but it may be occasionally helpful to draw contrasts with the way other schools deal with issues you consider critical.
We’ll definitely explore the following:
Education
Is education necessary? Define a "well-educated" person. What would such a person know and be able to do? Who should provide this training?
Loyalty
To which people/institutions should a person owe his/her loyalty? What is the nature and what are the limits (if any) of these obligations?
Society/Government
Describe the ideal society and government's role (if any) in that society. Be sure to address issues such as stratification, relations between people, and qualifications/responsibilities of leaders.
You may find the chart on pages 44-45 (or that neighborhood) useful as you prepare.
AnonymousAs I prepare for the upcoming debate, I keep coming back to the point Professor Dube made in our last session- namely, that even though some of the major Chinese philosophical schools were at odds with one another, the Chinese managed to blend some of the differing teachings with one another. Professor Dube cited the development of an Imperialist Confucianism - the legalists found a way of incorporating some of Confucious’ ideas with their own.
I wanted us to consider this reality of “blending” a bit more. I wanted to point out that I personally have seen this to be the case in the Chinese martial arts. In this segment of Chinese society, I have seen Daoist principles, Confucian principles, and Buddhist principles mesh nicely with one another in a coherent system.
From Daoism, gung fu practitioners borrow ideas of the Doa, the principle of opposites taught in the Yin & Yang, and a respect for nature. Many gung fu schools derive their strikes from animal postures learned via careful empirical observation of animal behavior/ physiology. Many movements in gung fu forms are named after natural settings. For example, it isn't uncommon for techniques to have names like "Crashing Waterfall" or "Cloud Wall." Some gung fu schools are more firmly rooted in Daoist principles compared to others. Tai Chi & Qi gong, for example, follow many Daoist principles.
Confucian principles can clearly be seen in the reverence gung fu students have in their "sifu" (teacher). Students are taught to always respect their sifu. The sifu is given special bow as a greeting. In very traditional schools, pictures of the ancestors- usually former patriarchs of the art form- are displayed and incense offerings become part of the ritual of the gung fu school. In gung fu, a clear master-disciple dichotomy is formed. The route of discipleship is traveled on with a keen reverence for the sifu. A clear distinction is also made between senior students and novice students. In the brotherhood of gung fu, the elder brother (the more experienced student) is shown a special respect by the novice.
Furthermore, Buddhist meditation and philosophy, as encapsulated in the 4 Noble Truths and the 8-fold Path, are also taught in gung fu. In building the gung fu practitioner’s moral character, the ideas within the 8-fold path are often taught.
So, as we each prepare for our side of the debate, let us pause for a moment and consider how parts of these philosophies have worked together with one another in China.
Does anyone else have examples of how these various philosophical principles have blended with one another in other segments of Chinese society?
AnonymousI just heard about an event tonight (10.7.05) at Santa Monica City College. A photographer who has covered and interviewed various Tibetan Buddhist Masters will have a lecture & slide show of his work. I'm not sure how into philosophy he will get or if it is just a recap of his work, but thought I would at least pass on the info. Who knows, some of the info could help in the debate.
SMCC
7pm - 9pm
Art Lecture Hall 214[Edit by="Arthur on Oct 7, 4:06:06 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousLooking at page 41 of the red reader (Early Chinese History), I was astounded by parenthetical citation 7:
[A state which knows how to produce strength] will bar all private roads for gratification of the people's ambitions and open only one gate through which the people can attain their desires. It will make the people first do what they hate, in order, thereafter, to reach what they desire...
The strength of the United States rests with our military excellence. In my humble opion, the aforementioned statement sounds like the very basis of the US Marine Corp. It has been said time and time again by former Marines that Marine Corps recruit training was the most difficult thing they ever had to do in their entire lives. Since boot camp is both physically and mentally challenging, only those who survive it are revered as "Marines." While nobody desires to be at war, honorable men and women fight daily for our great nation. We are blessed that these American heroes undergo harsh treatment and training (which I'm sure they hate) so that they can fight for our desires - freedom and the pursuit of happiness...From my perspective, legalist ideals are at the cornerstone of our military.
AnonymousI have several friends who are "former" Marines. Note the "former" rather than "ex-" notation. There is no such thing as an ex-Marine. It is PART of them for all of their lives. Says something for the commitment and the feeling of belonging.
AnonymousI've always thought the discipline that goes with asian martial arts could be used to channel agressive tendencies of young males into something they could use all their lives.
AnonymousIt seems that each of the philosophies are ideas for a way to control the chaos of the times. None give a definitive answer, or perfect/realistic solution.
I was initially drawn to the Mohist philosophy because of the denunciation of war. I am continually drawn to this flower child, idealism and fixated on the selection that basically says that people consider the murder of one person wrong, but fail to condemn the attack of a state. Mo Zi envisioned a pragmatic world to the extreme and presumed that people would love one another to ensure their own well-being. According to Mo Zi, people should love their mother, daughter, neighbor and leader equally. In effect, you'd have to turn off your emotions. He also considered rituals and music a waste, since music and rituals could not generate food or clothing for the poor. Though I think it's very important to feed and clothe people, I also believe that ritual and music are an integral part of being human. Mo Zi prescribes a forced dullness to fixing the world's ills. I think I'd rebel!
His philosophy also advocated increasing state power with a system of rewards and punishments. Leaders should obey the will of heaven and the people should obey their leaders. If you fail to respect the will of Heaven you will be punished. Seems close to Legalism.
Each philosophy has some good points. I can see why people use ideas from all of them. Though Mohism did not become mainstream it was still influential. There's a movie coming out called "Mo Zi Raider" that "...intends to shed light on Mo Zi's theory of only defend but no attack..." and "depicts the life of ancient celebrated scholar Mo Zi."
I'm having trouble creating a link to the website. I'll try sending it later. If interested you can go to http://www.chinaview.cn and search for "Andy Lau to star in martial art film."
AnonymousO.K., love is good, but love without action leads to further conflicts. As far as I am concerned, human emotions need to be controlled to a large degree.
AnonymousI am hearing some people agreeing w/ Karl Marx "religion is the opiate of the masses." I am also hearing echos of Freud and the development of the individual. First is the Id, or base animal drives. Then the Ego and hopefully the Superego will develop, or the ability to have delayed gratification up to caring for others. In essence, this is what religion is, to look outside your own wishes and desires, working towards a greater good, even if that good has no or a minimal reward for you.
This is one reason I am enjoying the Daoist perspective. Two ways to interpret the comment, do nothing. Some will assert the literal meaning that the individual just sits and does nothing. Others will see it as a way to have minimal effect on another, instead looking to lead/influence by example.
AnonymousI found a good website for using in the classroom to introduce students to Confucius.
It gives the basic moral terminology of Confucius, with the Chinese characters. Kind of cool.
Linda
AnonymousHere's another website with information on Confucius.
It contains the following topics:
1. Confucius' Life
2. Confucius' Social Philosophy
3. Confucius' Political Philosophy
4. Confucius and Education
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/confucius/
Linda[Edit by="zarooum on Oct 10, 9:40:38 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousThis is a nice website for kids. It has a biography of Confucius and several great pictures.
http://www.crystalinks.com/confucius.html
Linda
AnonymousThis website contains translations of several writings:
The Record of Rites, Boox IX, The Commonwealth State
Confucius, a Biography
Selected Verse of the Lun Yu
Full Text of the Lun Yu
Pictures Archive
Mencius, Book VI Kao Tzu, Part II. 15
Confucius Publishing Co., Ltd.
Speech on Anniversay of Confucius Birthday (1996)
Speech on Teacher's Day (1998)
http://www.confucius.org/maine.htm
Linda
clay dubeHi Folks -- As Therese pointed out tonight -- Daoism is more sophisticated that hinted at in the brief slogans we've explored. In fact, its elaborate structure persuaded many that it was a precursor to Buddhism.