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clay dubeLet's use this section of the forum to discuss a) the ideas emerging in China, b) the context in which those ideas develop, c) the real and potential impact of such ideas, and d) how can we engage students in the exploration of these ideas. Do intellectual exchanges in China's distant past have relevance for our students?
AnonymousThe question of relevance to life today is a key question for history teachers. I answer this in many ways: studying history is studying human nature since its like a huge laboratory of human beings put in nearly every type of situation imaginable; learning about other people's view allows you to see your own views from a different perspective and notice things you had simply assumed were part of everyday reality; knowing the details of history, particulary individual live, allows a person to see that their problems and concerns are not just their own but have been faced by many people throughout the ages; ideas from even thousands of years ago can shed light on present concerns because it always comes down to basic human social and psychological needs. Of course, for my students I state these more simply and give examples for each.
clay dubeHi Folks,
To aid Maria and Michelle and other members of the group who couldn't attend on Saturday, I've attached an early version of the Chinese philosophy curriculum guide. For those with the print version, that is the preferred version.
AnonymousMy fiance was watching ESPN last week and this story about Yao Ming caught my attention. The story focused on how "Americanized" Yao has become. They used an example from the summer Olympic games when he was playing with his team from China. At one of the games, he publicly yelled at his teammates which I guess is unheard of in China. The reporter talked about Yao moving away from China's "collective" group thinking to the "individualized" thinking of the US. Yao was even quoted as saying,"I don't always want to be nice". Obviously, living in America has changed Yao's behavior and his thinking. He's being exposed to a different culture.
It's interesting to think about the values of China and how many years they have been passed down from generation to generation. Yao Ming is a role model for people in China and a role model for Asians in the US. It might be a good intro to use him, or some other sports figure to get the students interested in talking about values of another culture. Not only is Yao changing his way of thinking, his influence as a role model in China, is exposing the young Chinese children to the "American-way". They see Yao receiving special attention and fame for being the "individual". The reporter interviewed Yao's first basketball coach. The coach said, Yao is paving the way. All the kids want to be the next Yao Ming and play ball in the US. [Edit by="jchan on Oct 19, 4:20:38 AM"][/Edit]
AnonymousI have difficulty believing that studying history is studying human nature. I don't necessarily believe that art/fiction/or history allows us to study "human nature since it's like a huge laboratory of human beings." I believe that publishers, editors, what's included in the text, and the type of imagining has a lot to do with what we teach and how I teach.
I don't know if we can see our views from a different perspective. I think our perspective is always the lens that we filter through. I feel that way from even from traveling around a bit not only is there a language barrier, but also a cultural barrier that keeps us polarized from truly understanding other cultures.
I think the text book presents material that fits into "our" cultural norms. I think it would be very difficult on any level for the text book at this level to be representational of what really occurred during the Ancient Civilization times. Students may understand a name like Qin or believe that he united China, but what they don't understand is how all powerful Qin was. These type of politcal structures I have never lived under. I have never lived in a society in which thousands of men would choose to become Eunuchs in the hopes of being selected to live in the Forbidden City, because at least they would have food.
Everything I teach is fortunately/unfortunately from my perspective and understanding which is quite limited, but I have a tendency to look at the inconsistencies or gaps in the textbook.
AnonymousTo aid my understanding of the 100 years war, when China was attempting to decide upon a new philosophy of government, I made comparisons to what is currently taking place in both Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a certain reconstruction of power and ideas that parallels the quest for a perfect governing model. While China looked to its own people for possible answers to a very tough question, these two countries are looking to outsiders, with very different cultures and ideas of living, for the answers to their needs for reconstruction. The formation or reformation of governmental structure is a very tense and difficult matter and requires the input of great minds and wealthy powers.
Many of our students are at the age where politics enters into the radar of their consciousness. They are fascinated and opinionated, although often times very poorly educated about current local, national and global issues. In a time such as this where the world is being upturned and reconfigured, where the United States is playing an integral part in that process, and where American troops are carrying out the legwork of that process, many of whom are family and friends of our very students, it is impossible not to make the connections, even if slight, between all that we study and all that we are currently experiencing. In order to make the past come alive we must link it to our present lives and allow our students to connect personally to it.
If they were in China making decisions regarding the future form of government, or if they were in Afghanistan, Iraq or the Palestine, what would our students choose? And how would they go about choosing it? I think if we were to frame it in this context, then our study of ancient Chinese philosophy would be incredibly meaningful, not only as a lesson of history, but as a lesson of today.
AnonymousI too believe that children today need this kind of lesson to help connect and explain their confusion of today's world. Children, especially in an era of much war, politics, reconstruction, reformation, and negotiation will find it difficult to connect everything together to understand exactly what is going on. Even I myself sometimes question many politically issues, whether to believe this or ignore that or even question whether what the politicians say are facts or opionion. This is also because I have yet to expose myself in such a complicated part of the world. Children today, even if they get polictically involved, such as my high school sister who is involved in an internship for organizing activities to recruite voters for the presidental candidate Kerry and Edwards, will not understand the whole issue because they are only exposed to one sliced of its whole. They only know what they are taught and sometimes think about one side because they are so convinced of it. If given an internship to the presidential campaign of President Bush, my sister would have probably support him as much as she would of Kerry. In sum, children needs to be taught to judge for themselves and lessons that intergrate history and current issues will help them understand better. History will repeat itself regardless. It's knowledge and experience that will guide us in making the better decision.
AnonymousIn reading the posts and the materials assigned, it occurred to me that, when we are young, we want to make history (both personal and global). Then, when we are more mature, we want to review and learn history. I believe that it is our teaching job to help the young understand that when they take the time to study history, they are better equipped to make their history. By learning these philosophies, the young may adopt parts or all of these ideas which will become a part of their decision-making future. I wonder sometimes why I choose certain paths or tasks or methods. Even though I cannot remember who may have passed the ideas or skills to me, they are an intrinsic part of me. When my students study these ideas or philosophies, they will choose what to retain or discard -- sometimes subconsciously. We are all tied to the study of philosophy, the study of human nature, the past and the future. What a thrilling concept!
AnonymousThis leads me to consider, "What history did I try to make as a teenager"? I can't even remember now what I wanted, but what I do remember, is that desire of which you speak: the desire to do something bold, to make a great statement, to have some contribution to the world, to in essence, make history. But what I lacked was a greater understanding of the world. I read, I wrote, I performed, I eventually traveled, but somehow I never really made any strong connections to the world outside of my own space. And it's important for me to consider this now as an educator because while these kids are curious about the world and are vocal about politics, etc. the real understandings and connections are not necessarily there. They are tied up in the day to day of their lives, and for most of them, these issues will not penetrate that sphere. So how do we lay the necessary foundation for educated decission making, informed empathy, and eventually, change the world, make history, actions?
AnonymousI walked away from the seminar very satisfied with the discussions of big ideas about human nature, literture and reading as autobiographical experience. But I wished we tackled the impact of the four philosophies in modern china. I think I overheard someone make a remark about women being oppressed or subjacated. I am not sure what word was used. But I really want to make a point about how Confucianism in itself is hierarchical but not without relationship. I spent alot of time talking about this with my students. The roles are reciprical, if the "superiors" are not wise, faithful and kind, the "inferior" does not have to adhere to the roles of respect. Neo-Confucianism twists the ideas of hierarchy that treat women in subservient roles. Most faiths gets perverted, for example Christianity and the Crusades. I am not sure which university, but I they have a series of lesson plans through out Ancient Civ that provides perspectives of women in ancient societies. We have to be careful of using western lenses to judge things. Anyhow, those are just some of my thoughts. [Edit by="yochan60 on Nov 13, 1:08:19 PM"][/Edit]
clay dubeThese are outstanding observations. Maria's quite right to ask that we take the philosophy discussion further. And we will. Throughout our sessions, presenters will be linking historical and cultural developments to these philosophical currents. We'll be getting a bit into Buddhism with Prof. Ye and into Shintoism and Bushido with Prof. Yamashita.
Lyn Reese has for almost two decades been working to produce curriculum units to "bring women in." Her units and other resources can be found at:
AnonymousI wanted to reply to Kyle's post on the China during the 100 years war and the differences between current day Iraq and Afghanistan. I wanted to note a similarity between modern day Iraq and Afghanistan to China under the Yuan Dynasty. During the Yuan Dynasty the Mongols conquered and dominated all of China as well as other parts of the world. They relied on other foreigners like Persians and Turks to run the government and the country overall. Chinese were only left to administer local matters, but were limited in the amount of power. Today, its seems like something similiar is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. invaded and occupied both countries and first set up military governments to run both countries. Then, we relied on some local tribal leaders and gave limited power to select individuals. Obviously, some differences exist, such that the U.S. sponsored or is sponsoring elections in both countries.
Another similiarity is that a lot of China's infrastructure was neglected and consequently damaged during the Yuan Dynasty. Likewise, much of Iraq's and Afghanistan's infrastructure and agriculture has been damaged and neglected by the U.S. led invasions which has hurt the civilian population.
Will a popular revolt spring up in either Iraq and Afghanistan like they did in China? Perhaps the fact that unlike the Mongol invasion, the U.S. invasions were not invasions of conquest will make the scenario different. Let's hope so.
AnonymousI would agree that studying history would not necessarily widen our perspectives or give us a broader understanding of human nature if you define studying history only as using textbooks. Hopefully we will teach our students that learning about history requires more than reading one person's summary. I try to bring in materials from many sources, including primary sources so that my students can get different views about topics. While it is true that each person sees the world from their perspective, some perspectives are larger because they have been broadened by experience and or study. The whole point of a liberal education is to be open to the experiences and views of other rather than just selectively choosing views that agree with whatever your current opinions are. Simply being aware that that there are different views, and that your own view has been shaped by your particular knowledge and experience is a first step to being open to see things from different perspectives. I personally love learning about new ideas and new ways of thinking about people and the world. While I do not uncritically accept every new idea, I have learned many new ideas and ways of looking at the world that have changed my thinking in many ways. Studying history should be an exploration in which you discover new worlds, and are introduced to different ways of thinking and living--that is if you are open to it all. We need not be trapped in our provincial and presentist ways of thinking, and seeing the world through someone else's eyes can be a huge benefit in this project.
AnonymousI hope everyone saw the article Sunday Nov. 21 in the Opinion section of the L.A. Times
titled "Pain and a Sons'sDuty: A Philosopher's Choice." It was about a grown son deciding whether or not to put his mother in a nursing home against her wishes. He made the decision to do so, but, being a professor of Chinese politics and philosophy, consulted Mencius to deal with his guilt about going against his mother's "personal autonomy." He found the answer in Mencius' qualified definition of filial piety. While believing strongly that a child should always obey his parent, Mencius related a story whose lesson was that, "...if you don't lead your parents to share your wisdom you aren't a good child." As the author of the article put it, "The trick in acting against the stated preferences of your parents is to do something that really is good for them."
Life is more often complex than simple, and great thinkers usually allow some room for flexibility to deal with these complexities. Those who don't, often oversimplify life and leave out other important human considerations. As Swift said about the Stoic philosophers (who were in many ways like the Daoists), "The stoical scheme of supplying our wants by lopping of our desires, is like cutting off our feet, when we want shoes." As usual, the best answer is somewhere between the extremes, or as Confucius called it, the Golden Mean. Its heartening to me to see great thinkers of the past quoted in dealing with current human problems. As Thoreau said, "For what are classics but the noblest recorded thoughts of man...These same questions that disturb and puzzle and confound us have in their turn occurred to all the wise men; not one has been omitted; and each has answered them, according to his ability, by his words and his life."
AnonymousI think in studying philosophy, history, and society I am hoping that my ideology will create peace from power, harmony from chaos, and understanding out of confusion. I think as we mature we begin to understand the different layers and how the political system is manipulated in order for power, fear, and control to occur.
I think when I teach this year about Chinese Philosophy, I will spend time explaining that each of these philosophies were designed to create harmony during a specific dynasty, and used to ensure the longevity of a dynasty. They were more than a political party or in some ways a religious belief. The various Chinese Philosophies were used to ensure peace with the idea that if they were actually acting according to the heavens the leaders would be sustained.
I'm not sure how are philosophical ideas are used today. I'm not sure if we use are modern day philosophies in an effort toward peace. They seem to be used more toward control and/or controlling a group of people. I don't know if the majority of people even have the same moral thought process that would readily accept peace over war.