education in asia

[Anonymous]

The reflection about the plight of rural Chinese teachers (to get certified) and its comparision with the situation of teachers'certification in LAUSD makes an interesting reading and I concur with quite a few points in the posting.
At the same time, it made me think about a school I sponsor in the far-flung area of the Himalayas. The houses/huts are so far apart in some mountain regions that it is not possible to run a regular school because students cannot get to it. These are locations where we can get to on horseback through narrow paths clinging to the mountainside, with a stream or a river flowing hundreds of feet down below, and it's freezing cold even in the summer time. A NGO I donate to, establishes a one room school in a particular spot and a volunteer teacher locally gets about 30 to 35 students from the surrounding houses and the students are taught the basic 3 Rs. This is trully a grass-root level school. I don't think (never thought of checking) the volunteer techer is required to hold any type of credential - he/she probably has a college degree and his/her dedication to impart education to the kids which, by itself, is a big contribution.

[Anonymous]

I read an article in the New York Times regarding the role of college degrees in China and their great worth. The article explained that various students who attended a college that was aligned with a larger more respected University were actually paying money to have the larger schools name printed on their diplomas. Payment also insured that the sub school’s name would appear nowhere on the diploma. The students learned to their dismay that the college’s name still appeared below the larger University’s name and that their money was lost. So they got mad and rioted and isn’t that what the poor and stupid do? Couldn’t they have worked harder and deserved a real place in the top University?

I’m not sure what’s worse, that the chancellor of the University would allow this and then exploit and defraud these poor students, or the fact that students would actually pay thousands of extra dollars for a few lines of print.

The sad fact for the Chinese population is that the market is so competitive that dropping a name is the only way to get a job. Sure glad that’s not the case in America, right?! Wait, wasn’t something like this going on here in America recently with the internet? And what do you say about an education system that gives great privilege to nothing more than a name? I spent the last year telling my “regular” kids (non-honors and therefore non college bound) that going to Harvard doesn’t matter so much as the pursuit of knowledge and learning does. So go get that job. Tell them you did a semester at the local junior college and see if they really do hire you over the UCLA brat sitting next to you. I understand why the Chinese pay so much for a name, a rose whatever. It’s survival. What would Marx say?

Rioting in China Over Label on College Diplomas
By JOSEPH KAHN

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10F10FC34550C718EDDAF0894DE404482

[Anonymous]

Although I moved to the U.S. after the 3rd grade, three fond memories exist of early education in Japan. First, each grade level took class fieldtrips to the local mountains. While I lived in somewhat of a rural area, I equate this experience to students who get to go to tide pools or whale watching in SoCal. Second, each year, we had school-wide athletic mini-Olympics. From running to obstacle courses, the whole school was on the playground for the day. Although I didn't win any one particular thing, the faces of friends and family members was a unforgettable time. Finally, post-kindergarten, I was introduced to true Asian education. We had KP duty by taking turns serving class lunches. We came once a semester on a Saturday to clean the school down. Here we often use paper pick-up as punishment. There, we cleaned because it was our community school. After school often wasn't free either. Juku, after-school private tutoring, was lifeblood for students trying to get a leg up to college. Calligraphy, abacus, English, and music lessons went on until 5 or 6 PM.

I guess some of the reasons for my personal fondness to the rigors of education is that I hate now to be treated soft by my professors or my boss. With professional training and open hearts, educators can establish rules and discipline in the classroom that latter on leads to greater freedom of learning. It is true that many students cannot freely express their opinions in the classrooms in Asia, yet many could recite Western literature that our students cannot begin to comprehend. As a teacher, it is my hope that our students will be internationally fluent much like the students around the world today. Did I enjoy corporal punishment (cane/switch) or life-draining academic lifestyles in Asia, NO! But I know that as a teacher today, I have to deal with more mature subjects in students' lives such as crime and drugs on campus, abuse at home, and more often than not "broken" households. The best way to look at it is, we can't do everything for the students today, but we can give them something for their future... I think that is one of the key to education both here and in Asia.

[Anonymous]

I just read an article on Asian Americans and education that attempted to explan different theories of why Asian Americans excel in school. The article contrasts the cultural and relative functionalism views. You can read the article at: http://www.modelminority.com/article1077.html

The article argues that Asian American success in school can't be just attributed to Asian American cultural values. The authors, Stanley Sue and Sumie Okazaki, actually published this article quite a while ago (1990) in American Psychologist magazine, but there is still a lot of discussion about this topic on the ModelMinority site. The authors state that it's not just because Asian Americans value education and upward mobility that they are successful in school. They say that it is a limit in upward mobility in certain areas of American society, mainly in noneducational areas such as leadership, entertainment, sports, politics, etc., and that the more limited these areas are to certain groups, the more desireable education and careers that require education become. There is also an interesting opinion on why children of Chinese peasants do better in the U.S. than in schools in China. This article doesn't have any definitive answers, but rather tries to demystify stereotypes and what they call "folk theories" about why Asian Americans do well in school.

[Anonymous]

Education Week Article: "China's Modernization Plan: What U.S. Educator's Can Learn."
March 22, 2006 http://internationaled.org/vivienstewarteducationinChina.pdf

This article offers many reasons why China has been so successful at improving education in recent years. One reason discussed is the fact that China has a clear vision of its goals for education. China plans on implementing a universal 12-year educational program by 2020, and universal preschool by 2015. The article also stresses that there is a strong teacher-preparation program, in which teachers have a national TV network, model lesson plans, help form master teachers, and weekly professional development meetings. Another point made is the intensive focus on math and science in Chinese schools. The article mentions that some would even call it an excessive focus, but because there is so much emphasis, both Chinese males and females do well in math and science--a point that I think would be interesting for further study since in the U.S. there is a stereotype that women aren't as skilled as boys in math and science. Furthermore, Chinese schools are more internationally oriented that American schools, and Chinese students all study English, beginning in grade 3. There is international benchmarking, and teachers are offered salary incentives if their students do well.

This article also mentions challenges in the Chinese system; it doesn't just view the Chinese system as the ultimate model that the U.S. should follow. I found it interesting that the U.S. shares similar challenges, such as a rural/urban educational gap (similar to the achievement gap between different ethnic groups in the U.S.), the emphasis on exams for moving up to higher education, capacity issues (in high schools, it is not uncommon to have 60-70 pupils per class--yikes!)

The article also offers suggestions for American high schools, one being that we need to focus more on countries like China in our classes and redesigning classrooms, since China and other countries are going to be much more a part of the globalized world, and students need awareness in order to compete and succeed in that world.

[Anonymous]

http://internationaled.org/news.htm#VS

In browsing the internet recently, I've really enjoyed the InternationalEd.org website. It has so many articles on education in Asia and learning about Asia in American schools. One article that I found while browsing struck my interest because it pertains to Iowa (where I'm from and originally taught) and China. The article is from the Des Moines Register and can be read at: http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060206/NEWS02/602060324/1004
It is titled: "Chinese visitors, Iowans discuss teaching methods:
A group of students from China visited Des Moines schools. The students find big differences in educational methods."

Iowa is still considered one of the best states for education in the U.S. As someone who used to teach there, I can tell you that it was wonderful being a teacher there, too. I can honestly say that 95% of the students in the classes I taught wanted to be there and did well in school. There is also tremendous parental support. On the other hand, Iowan students are pretty isolated from the rest of the country and the world. Since much of Iowa is rural and agricultural (something with which they could relate to many Chinese), students tend to not know much about the outside world. The fact that most students are white with little exposure to other ethnicities and cultures doesn't help much. The Sister States program, mentioned in this article, works to change that. I observed this program firsthand while teaching at a school for the gifted, Central Academy, in Des Moines. It was one of the few schools in the state that offered a Mandarin Language program. As part of the Sister States program, several Chinese students came to Central Academy to take advanced classes and learn about American culture. I had one of these students in my class--Feng Zhang--who won an Intel Science Talent competition and was runner up for a prize known as the "Junior Nobel Prize." He was brilliant, and it was so valuable having him as a student in AP English. The other students looked up to him, and he often shared stories of his education in China and how different education was in the U.S. I remember that he said he enjoyed being able to have more freedom to choose his classes in the U.S., and that he loved class discussions, because in China, he said, they rarely had discussions--only worked on memorizing information. The thing I loved about this program is that it made American students hungry to know more about different cultures. I would like to see more of this in LAUSD.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you that the pressure is becoming/is quite insane. I can't even remember my schedule when I was in middle/high school but I'm confident that it wasn't filled to the rim with activities, school, work, etc. I think the cheating and the stress comes from the pressure to be perfect. If we teach students that perfect doesn't exist, focus on the best they can do, and teach them that for every action there's a reaction, these strategies may work on students' ideas about cheating and morality.

[Anonymous]

As long as it remains so easy,, students who are under so much pressure to do well in test taking will find new and innovative ways to continue to cheat. Teachers need to keep on top of the students and be one step ahead of them in the classroom. Unfortunatly, they always seem one step ahead of me! For every student I catch cheating, there will be two more!

[Anonymous]

This is an old thread, but I will reply anyway. I taught in and around Seoul, South Korea- in An Yang, to be exact- in 1994/95 and I can personally attest to the pressures placed on these students by parents and school officials. Students spend long hours in class- our school day began at 7am and went to 5pm! Imagine trying to sell that idea here in the US- tough sell, to say the least. Couple these long hours with an average of 2-3 hrs of homework per evening, plus the almost-obligatory outside classes in sports, music, or in additional language instruction (primarily English), and you begin to wonder how these kids even have time to be kids. I am all for a rigorous academic environment that imparts practical, successful academic skills in students so that they may compete in today's world, but I often felt sympathy for these students. When do they get to enjoy their youth? Don't say weekends. On Saturday, the school opened at 8 and classes ran until 1pm. Weekends classes in English were also attended by almost every student.

I was amazed at the workload these kids could handle. I was teaching grades 9-10 English, and it was much the same as our traditional English class in the US. Grammar, writing, spelling, literature etc. The curriculum was dense and homework was required every single evening. At one point during our study of English poetry, I asked the students to read three Shakespearean sonnets and be "ready to discuss them upon their return to the class." Well, the students looked at me like I was insane- they kept asking, "What do we write, sir?" It took quite a bit of convincing to get them to understand that I just wanted them to read the poems for their enjoyment. Talk about a foreign concept! Many of them turned up with notes the next day. When I asked them why they did the notes, they invariably replied that their parents did not believe they did not have to do some writing and forced them to. They also called the school and complained that I was not "rigorous" enough. I had to meet with the headmaster and justify my assignment- which, of course, was not easy to do. There is intense pressure on these children.

When the odd student meltdown happened, it was usually quite dramatic. One student of mine- "Kevin"- was lambasted by a Korean math teacher for not answering a problem correctly. That teacher did not know that Kevin's uncle was dying from lung cancer, that his dad was deeply in debt, that his mother drank herself to sleep every night, and that he...well, like any kid, he hit the wall. The teacher pushed him too hard when he called him a Paboya- a fool (also rather common, unfortunately). Kevin was pinned to the floor, the authorities were called, his parents came to the school to be roasted by the headmaster, and Kevin was never seen again. Unfortunately, I witnessed this kind of meltdown more than once. Honestly, I grew to see many of my Korean colleagues as merciless taskmasters; as unimaginative, pedantic drillmasters. The children toiled under this pressure day in and day out, and very seldom did they complain. Yes, they would fall asleep the odd time or begin to look very, very exhausted, but they would show up the next day, ready for more. The pressure from parents was huge, but the peer pressure, I think, was the number one reason they kept at it. To lose face by falling behind was simply not an option that one would entertain.

From 1996-1998, I taught an English Immersion class for the 10th and 11th graders from Fukushima High School at The Infinity International Institute in Sherman Oaks. The students and their teachers would reside in a dormitory setting for sessions lasting three months at a time. They would study their regular curriculums with their teachers and then come to me for additional English classes. What a different experience! I was somewhat hesitant at first, as I had to meet with the Japanese teachers and present my "educational plan". Based on my experience in Korea, I put together something that was pretty standard- reading, writing, grammar etc. Much to my surprise, I was told that they wanted me to emphasize converational English, idiomatic expressions, and to focus on making the experience "fun for students." I almost fell over in shock. I glady complied. Later, Yamazaki-sensei explained to me that the students were getting all of the "heavy stuff" with their Japanese English teachers, and that they wanted the kids to learn "real English" from a foreigner and that they wanted the kids to have fun with this person so as not to be afraid. Wow! It was a great experience and I remained in touch with several students for many years. It seemed to me that the Japanese high school students had a much better time of it.
[Edit by="gjones on Jul 21, 9:37:06 PM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

I saw an interesting interview on CSPAN with a filmmaker who did a documentary comparing students of comparable backgrounds and socio-economic levels in China, India, and the US. This film illustrates many of the issues being discussed on this thread. The documentary is called 2 Million Minutes and it is about how 6 high school students, 2 from each country, spend the last 4 years of their lives leading up to college.
From the clips I saw on the documentary, the film looked very interesting and I thought it brought up a lot of interesting questions about the value different populations put on education. There is a website related to the film and you can buy the DVD if you want from the website. There are also a lot of links to articles and news sites that discuss the film. The website is 2mminutes.com.

[Anonymous]

There is another thread on that particular movie, but my two cents about it again. If you randomly choose two students from each country, how do you decide which two? Do we choose the best and brightest of the US or someone who just moved to the US and hardly speaks English? Are there many immigrant students in India who dont speak the native language like the US? There are so many differences it's hard to compare.

[Anonymous]

This question was brought up in the interview with the filmmaker. My understanding from the interview was that the filmmaker was very conscientious in choosing students who were comparably similar in social and economic backgrounds in their different countries. It seemed to me to be a fair representation of students from each country, which is why I found it so interesting. Also, I don't think that the goal of the film was to criticize the different education systems, but to highlight the differences in value placed on education by parents and society in general in each of the 3 countries.

[Anonymous]

I'm still skeptical. If we choose someone in a family who earns 20K/yr in the US compared to someone in India, there's going to be a huge difference. 20K is poverty for most families in the US but will provide a decent living in India. Why not choose a middle class white (non hispanic) suburban family from the US? I'm sure overall, they would do quite well compared to an "average" family in India or where ever at a non selective school. As long as the US school does not have many minorities, special education needs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify... Regarding the 2 Million Minutes documentary. I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I feel misunderstood. When I say the students were from 'comparable socio-economic backgrounds' that doesn't mean that they come from families that have the same income in dollar amounts. It means "comparable" in the context that when considering the different economic situations and social standing in each country, the students were similar to eachother so that they could be compared fairly. Also, the students chosen in the US were white (non-hispanic) and from middle or possibly upper middle class families as you suggest they should be. I would also like to say, again, that this film wasn't targeted at the actual school systems, but rather the behaviors of the students and how they spent their time both inside and outside of their regular school days, their attitudes, things of importance to them, work ethic, expectations for the future...It was more of a reflection of our different cultures and values of our different societies, neither good or bad, but thought provoking and a good discussion starter.

[Anonymous]

I understand your point. However, I will always be wary if the selection of schools that do not have a large sample size and were not chosen randomly. Even within the same social economic status schools, there are great variances in US schools. Even the CA schools account for that. I used to teach at a school with over 25% of the students getting free/reduced price lunch and 50% who spoke a language other than English at home. The urban high school had a API of 941! Compare that to a school in India with students with similar backgrounds if that is possible. I wouldnt even know where I would define free and reduced price lunch in India or 70% minority population.

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