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Rob_Hugo@PortNWI think I am pretty liberal in my thinking that people nowadays no longer need to be married. I believe that if a couple is in love and chooses not to be married but live together, that is acceptable. One of the reason I feel this way is probably because I personally am not sure whether I would like to have kids or no. I believe adoption may be a better choice for this overpopulated world. Also, I think that I want to be well off enough to support myself before I can consider settling down with a family, so as a 18 year old in college, the idea has not popped in my head yet. To most traditional Asians, my ideas would probably be ignorant and almost blasphemous.
So just as a question, what are everyone's views on marriage? Should one get married at all? What age should one get married?
Anonymouswhen i was younger, i thought it was the norm for all girls to get married, and that procreation was a woman's duty to carry out. however, now, i happen to think differently. although i do want to have a family of my own later on in the future, marriage for me is no longer a necessity but a preference. people say the best age for females to get married is around 26 but for me it might take a while since i want to finish graduate school before i commit myself to something major like starting my own family. adopting sounds like a neat idea...
AnonymousI have always wanted to get married eventually. The thought of just living together and not getting married has never been one of my options. However, as I am exposed to more liberal ideals, I find myself accepting the possibility for myself. But, I think my parents would find that highly unacceptable. They would think that if I am living with someone, I have to be married. To them, a girl who lives with someone (a man) and not be married to him is considered "bad" and permiscuous. Since they are conservative, it's definitely difficult for me to even imagine them accepting their daughter to not get married and live with someone. However, like many Asian parents here, they have adopted and learned to accept many new perspectives on things. But as of right now, I dont think it's even crossed their minds.
Anonymousforget wut asians think mike, i totally support ur "liberal" ideals.
the whole concept of having children is really controversial, but in accordance to what you believe, i can see many positives to it. for one, with one mindset, having children really isn't the best idea. you're right, the world is overpopulated and adoption just seems a lot less self centered. i personally am against the religio-messages saying "make many kids; no contraception! God says to procreate so the more the merrier". yea, well its those same groups of people that are getting overpopulated with low resources. these kids that are born in the world are born into a world of hell. in fact, what % of humans actually live comfortably. so the idea of having children itself is flawed. from a biological standpoint, to not have kids is to breach our "programmed" mindsetting. why do we have kids. its rly an urge, a preprogrammed set to pass on our genes to the next generation (and in some cases, to ensure our own security later on in life). thats wut life is all about. we live to procreate and then die. who can say that life is rly a nice happy trip. yea, maybe for the top 0.3%. life in general is totally not worth it; its hard and payoffs are low. we have "good times" that fade as we forget them after a couple of days, and a crudload of decline: as far as i'm concerned, after we breach the age of 14, life goes on a down hill slide as we lose our innocence, learn that life is just about getting a job and conforming to society so you can survive, and as we get older all we do is miss the "good ol' days", which is ironically NEVER the present. i mean, even people in the top 1% complain about how hard life is. imagine the other 99% who have to worry about what to eat, or whether they were going to be mugged in their homes, etc..
does this mean having kids is selfish. i hate to say that cause its wayy too extreme; of course it isn't. but to NOT have kids is COMPLETELY selfless; how hard is it to say, "aite, i'm giving up my dream of having kids", cause really THATS WHY people have kids. life isn't some fairy tale. its full of hardship and loss, up till the point of death. why would we want to bring in more lifeforms to suffer (who would be our OWN CHILDREN) when we can instead help mediate some suffering of some younglings that already exist.
Anonymousto mike's msg about marriage:
i also agree times are changing. i talked with an interesting sophomore who lectured me for like an hour on his views of the meaning of life, etc. so what is marriage. something we GOT to do? exactly. its programmed by society; sociological genetics, which is programming passed not by our genes (like having kids) but to marry, to go to school, all of that stuff. marriage really isn't human nature at all on a biological level. but of course, lets not start with that; cause on the biological level, humans are nothing more than instinctual beings with little sense of restraint, just like the rest of the animal kingdom.
so is marriage good then? its like our talk on the advantage of ritual. marriage is a ritual, whether we like to believe it or not. but is it worth keeping.
mike's view on that times are changing is a good argument; marriage really doesn't have to be what it is. i mean LOOK AT ITS SUCCESSES. marriage is doomed to fail by over 50%. it's not even a COIN flip ppl, its less. why? cause marriage takes discipline; relationships take discipline, and true love isn't physical attraction. its devotion, willingness to put up with ugly moments, to compromise. when people love, its usualy "so how can you love ME". Its never "how can i love you", as it should. thats one thing i do have to admit i agree with in terms of christian beliefs. but lets just sum it up in a simple sociological statement: marriage isn't working that well... can we find better?
so lets dump marriage. who needs it. well ...there's more arguments. for instance, what bout kids. how are people gonna raise kids. yea, the adoption. i know. but ..eventually... we're gonna run out if EVERYONE adopts. so assume the situation now; we got a lotta people unmarried making babies. thats gonna cause a lot of problems. without the restriant of marriage, why would these adults take care of the kids? its sad but true, human nature isn't always that awesome. without marriage, society loses one of its most precious rituals; would it even be able to function.
so i leave it to you guys. its rly just this: marriage isn't a good system but its the BEST we have now. is there a better one? can we think of a better one? IS there a better one?
AnonymousI agree that society has changed a lot and marriage isn't as relevent to some people anymore. When I was a kid I always just assumed I'd get married in my late twenties.. I think that I still would like to get married when/if I meet the person that I feel is right. I guess it's hard to say for sure or not how I'd feel about marriage when I'm TOTALLY not there yet. Also, if anything, I'd be "pressured" into marriage because while it's not necessary for me, I'm not against it and I think many problems could arise within the family if I just chose to live with my partner w/o marrying him.
Right now, I feel that I would rather adopt a child. I've told many people this, and a lot of older people shake their heads at me and I know they think that I'm being naive. I realize that my mind might chnage in the future when my "biological clock" is really ticking.. but for right now, I believe adopting is the best choice for me.
AnonymousWow afang. Reading your post, I sensed a degree of....finals stress? I respect your opinion, but I have a different view of life. Personally, I have always looked forward to getting married and having my own children (2 not 20). I haven't considered adoption, but who knows how I will change when I reach that age. I don't care if it is "buying into" an artificial ritual, but I do believe in marriage and its contribution to leading an emotionally fulfilling life. I feel that if people are getting married for the right reasons and are mature enough to handle it, it can have a very positive effect on a person's life and society as well. Call me an optimist, but I do not see life as procreating and then dying. I see it as a constant effort to improve who I am as a person and accomplish the goals that I set for myself. If you choose a job that you love, even if employment is conforming to society, what fault is there in that? If people choose to focus on the negative then that is all they are left with. I'm not saying this because I don't want to believe that that life isn't always a bowl of sunshine, but it's the philosophy that I live by. I think it's the fact that I don't believe life is all that bad that I do want to bring children into this world.
AnonymousMarriage is a big deal. I know when i get married, i want to be completely sure of my reasons for marriage and my love for my partner. Now days, couples are marrying older because of career wise or what not, but when i chose to get married i would want to be completely ready mentally, fiancially, physically, whatever. Divorce rates are increasing everyday, and i would not want to add to the statistics, so i would rather wait, rather than make mistakes. When i ask my mom, "what if i never get married," she would always respond, i would be incredibly sad. She thinks a person who have not gone through marriage and kids, has no meaning to their life. I often times argue with her about how independent someone can be, and marriage and kids often times aren't as important to them.
AnonymousWow, I am pretty surprised that people actually agree with my opinion on this "liberal" marriage idea. Most of my friends that I talked to would have disagreed simply because they can not accept the idea of coexistence. I also totally have to concur with albert's idea on that "marriage isn't a good system but its the Best we have now." Yes, I also believe this is true because let's face it. Humans are selfish. Just think about the idea of abortion and how people support it; this shows that people either aren't willing or aren't ready to take care of children. Without the binding marriage that poses a responsibility on humans, I truly wonder what would happen to kids?
Also, another intersting question that I thought up with Albert's response is that, do you guys think the society requires parents to nurture their children for way too long? I think that we definitely could be more leninent on when our children can take up more responsibility or not. For example, the age old question of why the society would allow 18 yr olds to drive but drinking is prohibited until you are 21? Doesn't the priviledge of driving bring more responsibility than drinking? Just a random thought.
AnonymousI think it is completely a personal choice as to whether you get married or not. My family never pushed me into finding a husband or anything, then again I am 19 years old. But nonetheless, my mom would be thrilled because then she would never have to let go of me haha. I guess you can kind of see that I have a pretty attached family, being the youngest and only girl. But personally I do want to get married, but only after I finish college, and graduate school. Maybe during graduate school would be okay if I have a stable job and a loving boyfriend of course. I would probably get married around age 25, since I do want to have kids. I definetly won't have any children if I cannot support them, so financial stability is extremely important. But overall, settling down with a nice family in a cozy home would be my future goal later on down the road.
Anonymousi dunno i actually believe in the idea of marriage and think that couples who truly love each other should get married.. no i do belief that this is a personal choice and that whether someone does take the leap to do it depends on a variety of reasons, but i guess i'm kinda traditional and i do believe that there is such a thing as "til death due us part".. i think it provides security not only for the couple but for the children as well... ... i think it'd be really awkward if my child came up to me and asked how long me and daddy have been married and having to either make up a story or to tell him that we never got married....
AnonymousI just read an interesting article about birth in the United States. What caught my attention was that statistics showed that "first-time moms were about 25 years old on average- an all-time high in the U.S. In 1970, the average age was bout 21". ALSO, more women in their midlife are having babies (mostly because of fertility treatments for women ages 40 to 44 years). In addition, men are also becoming older fathers: the average age for a new father is almost 30 years old.
My own mother married when she was 24 and had me when she was 28. My dad was also 30 when I was born. I wonder if immigration from countries with cultures that promote relatively early marriage is factored in?
For those of us planning on attending graduate school one day, Harvard Business School is now accepting more undergraduates out of college, ESPECIALLY women: only 1 of 4 MBA students are women, and most of them hold back from earning the degree because they are less inclined after starting their own family.
I've also had friends that married young. My roommate for example, is 19 years old, and planning on getting married to her boyfriend of 4 years this summer. My family has friends whose daughters married shortly after graduating from college at the age of 21 and 22 years. These women were high-achieving and went on to earn several graduate degrees. When asked if they regretted marrying so young........ most of them say, "I'm glad that I married young; otherwise, I'd be caught up in my professional life and not consider marriage until later in my life... that, or not marry at all".
The most interesting case was when my math tutor's daughter married the SAME day she graduated from UCSD. Graduation in the daytime, marriage ceremony at night. Hopefully we won't be seeing white gowns tucked away under our graduation regalia 3 years from now..........
-Ames
AnonymousI personally have all the intentions and expectations to marry in the future, but not until i have a strong hold on my career. I think that comes a lot from the expectations of my parents. They have drilled into my head that a "good, wise, and respected daughter" would wait unil she had a firm grasp of her future before she marries. They back that up by saying that if marraige fails/divorce happens, one thing I could fall back on is my career. In ways I do agree with that, and I think that is a fairly modern view of marraige. What they emphasize even more is that I should definitely have a career before I start raising a family because financial stability just eases the economic burden of family rearing.
Reading Amy's stats on how much older people are marrying and starting families is not surprising to me...I think that goes the same for most of us because that it the growing trend in America. It amazes me more when people our age are getting married and ready to start lives together. I just always think...you're so young...how do you know that you're ready? Then again, I totally respect people's choice and timing for marraige.