I didn't know....

[clay dube]

As we read and talk, I hope that all of us might be able to offer at least a few substantial endings to the "I didn't know..." opening.

Was there anything that you "knew" that you discovered to be incorrect or incomplete? I've been studying Asia and especially China for a long time and still frequently find that the "conventional wisdom" or at least what I've assumed to be the case is either wrong, misleading, or at least flawed.

Please take a moment to reflect on the range of topics and materials we've worked on and share your own endings to "I didn't know...." or "I thought ...., but now I ...." While your ideas about Asia almost certainly have been enhanced, revolutionized, or challenged, it may be that studying other peoples and other times have helped clarify your ideas about yourself, our society, and our time.

[Anonymous]

Thinking about Thursday's seminar, I am fogging on the politcal climate in E.A. After viewing the picture of the Statue of Liberity and the dictators propaganda news prints/fliers, plus the very current strong lanuage from China towards Thailand, I am curious, is there a relative cold war stewing in East Asia?

Frank 😐

[Anonymous]

I didn't know how much I didn't know! A Japanese Ben Franklin! And hey, how about our country's leaders/lineage falling by the wayside. Never thought about that one. I could certainly relate to the worry re: traffic during the olympics vs. pride of hosting it. And wasn't the traffic great? Gee whiz. I'm an English teacher- never thought I'd be so captivated by economic history and trade numbers.

Went to a foster-adopt meeting today to check out possible kids waiting for adoption. Turns out there is only 1% Asian kids in the L.A. county system of 75,000. Can this be atributed to Asian cultural norms of family members taking in parentless minors as do South Pacific cultures a la Mary K. Latourneau's babies? It's certainly not the case for African-American and Hispanic kids. My friend, a child welfare worker, cites that kids up for adoption are due to parents being jailed. So, can one make the assumption that Asian parents aren't going to jail in L.A. countyat the rate of African-Americans and Hispanics? Hmm.

[Anonymous]

I didn't know that... I could identify so strongly with the Legalist point of view. Growing up in an Asian household I respect and have adhered to Confucian principles (filial piety, respect to elders and authority, emphasis on education) However, as I was reading The Debate on Salt and Iron, I found myself identifying more with the minister. His arguments and rebuttals were more convincing and more practical than those made by the Learned men. I don't agree with the draconian measures implemented by the Qin empire but I think that Legalists understand the true nature of man better than some Confuciasts(?)
It forces me to take a good look at discipline on a much smaller scale - my classroom. Are we to 'rule' with an iron fist or a velvet glove? I would have to say "the iron fist." As Machiavelli once wisely put it "It is better to be feared than loved." (or something like that)
-Alice

[clay dube]

I imagine that teachers are always Confucians and Legalists --
We seek to cultivate the young, but we're prone to using Legalist-prescribed rewards and punishments to foster that growth.

[clay dube]

Frank mentions the tensions between China and Taiwan --
There is enormous trade between the two, Taiwanese companies have invested billions in China, and there's now quite a significant population flow as well. Further, many Taiwanese businessmen now have Chinese wives and families. This is all merely the recent recreation of long-standing ties. The overwhelming majority of people in Taiwan have now distant or aged relatives on the mainland. Two generations of people in Taiwan, though, were raised without the ability to easily travel to the mainland and their immediate familial and cultural connections are limited. As a result, it's easy for many to imagine a formalizing of the status quo: two states, linked by language, business, and custom, but independent.

On the mainland, however, the political doctrine has been consistent. The state has decreed that there's only one China and Taiwan is a part of that China. It just happens to be, thanks to the Japanese war and American meddling, temporarily not under the direct control of Beijing.

Both sides have large militaries, but at present China lacks the naval capacity to invade and occupy Taiwan. It could, however, rain missiles on every significant population center. The Bush Administration has offered to sell Taiwan billions more in armaments, but for a couple of years now the Taiwanese parliament (dominated by those who don't want a formal declaration of independence) hasn't been willing to allow Taiwan's president (a pro-independence warrior until he was elected, now more of a status quo guy) to acquire tools they fear might encourage him to behave more forcefully (in their eyes dangerously belligerently) toward the mainland.

Finally, Frank slipped in mentioning Thailand. In fact, Thailand's current PM is an authoritarian American-educated billionaire telecom chief (and former police officer) who rather appreciates strong centralized rule. He gets along well with the Chinese, who similarly love the way he describes his own rule: an iron fist in a velvet glove.

[Anonymous]

Alright... What I didn't know seems pretty insignificant as far as how it is going to affect my point of thinking. But I didn't know, how straight forward the Chinese language is. You know, about the names of rivers and cities. I find language very interesting. Maybe Chinese is not as dificult a language to learn as I have previously thought.

[Anonymous]

I think it's a fair assumption that Asian parents aren't going to L.A. county jail anywhere near the rate of other ethnicities. 😛

[Anonymous]

Dear Professor,

You stated that Confucius was an aristocrate. I thought Confucius was the illegitimate child of Confucius' warrior father and his father's concumbine. I was under the impression that Confucius grew up poor and fatherless and that his mother worked to provide Confucius with an education because he showed obvious talent with his studies. Am I a victum of bad historical facts?

Frank :}

[Anonymous]

I didn't know about how the daoists felt about teachers and sages. I thought it interesting to learn that what the daoists taught the Legalists actually did.

Anyway, I came upon a quote by Loa Tzu, which seems to conflict with this message. It is one of respect towards teachers. I've given a link to the webstie I found it at as well.

"A good person is a bad person's teacher.
A bad person is a good person's work.

It is a grave mistake to disrespect your teacher
It is a grave mistake not to love your work.

This is an important insight."

Lao Tzu's Quote
" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://orbum.net/mark/images/LaoTzu.gif [Edit by="kmilton on Apr 20, 11:20:41 AM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

It seems there is a lot of confusion with confucius. (hence his name!) 😀

I mentioned in the last Thursday seminar that I thought Confucious had to flee for his life. Thus I had to go back and research and see where I got that information....

I did find some information which backs up Frank's initial thoughts of Confucius. In the following link:

http://www.crystalinks.com/confucius.html

It mentions that he was born into a poor family and that his father died when he was 3 in one account.

In another account (from the same website) it mentions what I initially believed. It says that his teachings were rarely tolerated for long before nobles would plot to drive him out or plot to have him killed. He was arrested once and jailed for 5 days. At age 62 he was pursued by a band of soldiers, but a sympathetic king helped him escape.

The following link also provides information on Confucious mentioning that there are a lot of conflicting histories of Confucius from various sources...

The reading states he offended royalty of the Lu nobilty and was forced to go into exile. As he later looked for a ruler that would employ him he was met with danger and hardships:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/confucius/#1

[Edit by="kmilton on Apr 20, 11:44:40 AM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

I didn't realize I needed to post a response to the "didn't know." Seventy five percent of the information covered on Saturday - I didn't know. This makes me realize that I am in the right place because I need to know. It is not that I ever thought Asia was unimportant, I just now have a new appreciation as to why it is so important. I also was blown away by the impact of computers and technology and how even rural people have computers and in some areas it is the only form of entertainment, tying us all together.Text

[Anonymous]

After our debates today, I wonder if we, as teachers, don't maybe have a bit of all the philosophies. (I.E>law and order in the classroom, legalist; heirarchy of the system, confucian; can't we all get along, moist; and the way of the tao which of course can't be described)

[Anonymous]

I didn't know that famous calligraphy writings had RED seals indicating emporer ownerhip!! Very cool!

😀 [Edit by="jhughes on Apr 23, 2:47:29 PM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

I learned the same as Jhughes! Interesting that the seals are in red. This doesn't interfere with the original writing or picture. (Well at least we know what was original and what was a seal).

[Author]

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