loyalty

[clay dube]

Hi Folks,

Remember my closing question --

To whom do you owe loyalty? Your father consciously and deliberately broke an important law. You and he both know he did this. What should you do?

Please get into character (writing in the first person) as a disciple of one of our four schools of thought and pound out an answer.

[Anonymous]

As far as I can tell from the reading, there are no special circumstances exempting an individual from punishment according to the master, Mo Zi. My father must face the consequences of his actions just like any other suspected criminal. I cannot hope for justice not to be blind just because my father is the object of her gaze. Yet, should my father not be eligible for the most vigorous defense like any other accused? That being the case, I have loyalty the the impartiality of the process that guarantees the rights of all defendants.

[Anonymous]

To whom one owes loyalty depends on which of the schools one follows. In Confucianism, the duty of loyalty appears to go first to the father, so the child would not report the breaking of the rule. In Mohism, the family should not come first, so the child might attempt to correct the wrong. In Daoism, the rule itself is the problem, so the child appears to have no obligation. Finally, in Legalism, the primary loyalty is owed to the rulers of the state; thus the child would be obligated to report the transgression to state authorities.

[Anonymous]

If I was a legalist and my father knowingly broke a serious law, I would have to turn him in to the authorities. Legalists believed in strict and consistent punishments for rules that have been broken.

Some Legalist philosophers even believed that human beings were born inherently bad, so the only way to deal with them is to form strict rules and consistent punishments. The interests of the state are to be put above all other matters, so the mere fact that he is my father does not matter as much as the laws of my government.

I owe my loyalty to my government. In fact, my government may even reward me for turning my father in!

[Anonymous]

As a follower of the great master Mo Zi, I am no longer bound by filial piety. For society to work, we must emphasize discipline and authority. Our officials who serve must be virtuous and wise, and as all men are my family, they all must all strive to be virtuous and wise. My father has not shown wisdom and has broken trust with the citizens of the state by his misdeeds. My father has committed a crime, and I know it. I cannot justify letting it pass as if I were a Confucian. My loyalty is to all men, and that supercedes the loyalty I have as a son to a father. As in mathematics and engineering, there are laws to follow; citizens must do likewise and follow the rules of the state. We must strive for universal love and cooperation. However, if one man breaks the link of this chain, all society suffers a lack of harmony. For the Good of China, I must remember the Golden Rule, "Do unto others as I would have them do unto me." If someone breaks the harmony of the state he must be held accountable because it has affected every citizen. The misdeed of my father has affected me just as it has every other man in China.[Edit by="jchristensen on Feb 29, 9:14:43 PM"][/Edit]

[Anonymous]

As a disciple of Confucius, I think that my primary loyalty should be to my father, although that term can be interpreted broadly. At the foundation of all society is the family, so I should be obedient to my father and treat him with respect and deference. This loyalty extends further to my father's fathers (i.e. my ancestors). I must honor them too. In addition, the emperor is the "father" of our country, so he must be treated with deference and loyalty as well. This loyalty is a reflection of the "Five Relationships" described by Confucius. However, there is a caveat: Confucian relationships are two-way streets. Although I (as a son - I wouldn't be writing this if I were a daughter, because I wouldn't receive an education) owe my primary loyalties based on these relationships, those in positions of superiority to me must treat me with kindness or our relationship won't work. This is similar to the Mandate of Heaven for our rulers. If the emperor's dynasty behaves badly and doesn't take care of its subjects, the gods will remove the dynasty's mandate to rule and it is justified to remove one's loyalty to the emperor in favor of another dynasty that has the gods' mandate.

[Anonymous]

I am but a simple Mohist. I firmly believe that all people within society should be looked upon with the same uniform standards. However, we also believe that discussion can be used to solve ethical issues and promote positive action. Even though each citizen should consider that their loyalty if first to Heaven, I think that one must ask oneself to what degree is a simple rule being broken a direct disrespect to Heaven. I am a son of a man who has lost his moral correctness for a moment. I am supposed to be human e and do what is right under Heaven. Will turning in my father, the main teacher in my morality correct what he has done? The question I must ask myself is what is the most humane action. When we Mohists speak to a uniform code, it is not to strengthen the virtue of all by magnifying a mistake made by some one so lowly as my father, but to ensure that great disrespects to the society go punished, even if from the imperial family.

[Anonymous]

As a loyal Mohist, I must turn my father in. He must adhere to the same standards as everyone else in society. Even though he is my father, it would be unethical of me to turn a blind eye to his crime. Every action has consequences that one must accept. This is something that we all must consider before we act on our impulses to disturb the political balance in the Mohist society.

The question that one must weigh very heavily in his mind is: How do we punish my father for his crime? I feel that Heaven should judge him; yet he should undergo some moral training so that his future decisions will consider the well-being fo all in our society.

[Anonymous]

As a Confucian my loyalties lie with my father. The relationships with my family comes first and therefore I must remain loyal to my father.

[Anonymous]

If I had to choose and adhere to one of the Schools of Thought, which would it be? I would find it difficult to follow any one because different circumstances would determine my loyalty. I can't consider myself a total Confucian because I'm a Womanist. A womanist is a Black woman's version of a feminist. Though I do believe in family, respect for elders, education, and that human nature is basically good, there are some aspects of Confucianism that don't set well with me. It's male hierarchical dominated.

[Anonymous]

"WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS NOW IS LOVE, SWEET LOVE. THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT THERE'S SO LITTLE OF." Words to a popular old song that I'm sure you all remember. Seems like a Mohists could have written that song. Mohists believe in UNIVERSAL LOVE. Love is a standardized language. love others before yourself. Everybody is the same and what we need is love. I believe this, but I'm a realist and not a staunch idealist. Love can be viewed as a drug and we know what drugs can do. The good, the bad, and the ugly. My loyalty would not be with the Mohists.

[Anonymous]

Can a rich man consider himself a Daoists? Yes and No. Let me be politically correct. Can the rich consider themselves Daoists? Daoists don't believe in gluttony (which is one of the seven deadly sins). They don't believe in having too much, including too many desires. They believe in having only the necessities of life. With this definition, are the rich Daoists? No, I don't think so. However, Daoists believe that one must work for a living. With this, Daoism is no longer clearly defined. Don't Oprah, the Donald, and Bill Gates work for a living? Rich people work. Don't they? Or do they? Hmmm. Since I'll never be rich unless I hit the lottery, and since I would not have worked for that, I guess I couldn't be a Daoists; but, I am against greed because it has devastating consequences like global warming, animal distinction, pollution, greenhouse effect, poverty, etc. In that case, I could follow the Daoists School of Thought.

[Anonymous]

I am a legalist because I believe in doing things legally and if I knew of someone breaking the law, I would report that person (depending on what they were doing). For example, I once knew of a lady who was renting an illegal structure in the back of her house. Did I report her? No. It wasn't hurting anybody. Does that make me not a legalist? It depends on the severity of the law breaker. A rapist, child molester, child abuser, thief, murderer, hard cores crimes like that would warrant me to be a legalist. But someone making a U-turn in the street, cheating on their taxes, jay walking wouldn't make me a legalist. Was Martin Luther King, Jr., a legalist? Yes and No. We all know why he was, but why wasn't he? MLK said that all laws weren't "just" and he would not obey an unjust law. That's why he went to jail.

So in all of these Schools of Thought, my loyalties lie a little in each of them.

[Anonymous]

I love my father as I love myself and all others in this world. My father should not have done that, for as Mo Zi taught, if the state is to be in order, the good need to be rewarded and the evil punished. Therefore I must tell the ruler so that he will be well informed of who is good and who is evil in order to reward and punish accordingly. This is a sad day for me nonetheless, but with the universal in mind, it is better that my father face the consequences of his actions.

[Anonymous]

The Mohists lost their position in the philosophies of China centuries ago.

Today, a Chinese saying is: A Chinese wears a Confucian hat, a Buddhist robe, and Doaist shoes.

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