School of Thought Debate

[Richard Cate]

In thinking about the question: "Would you turn in your father for committing a serious crime," I started to look at China under Qin and China today under Xi. I see a china that has put on a shiny new facade, but is fundamentally little changed. Chinese law remains a servant of state policy rather than personal right. It is not as harsh but still rigid and often cruel.

And I look at the aims of China in 256 BCE and of today and it is still a relentless drive to unify all peples thought of as Chinese under one Rule. President Xi is probably the most formable political in the world today. He has vision, longevity, and almost total control of a powerful government, with a powerful military. I am just guessing but perhaps he feels he needs to get it done in his lifetime because those who follow might not stay the course. His solution to the perceived Muslim problem is unique. I guess it beats sending in the army to exterminating them.

I personally feel that he has made a mistake with Hong Kong. I am quite sure that they are an irritating thorn in his side, but if he wants to get Tiawan to rejoin the warm embrace of "Mother China" he has definitely sent the wrong message. He riske a war that could easily escalate well beyond alocal conflict to ehgulf us all. I don't think he believes America will actually fight to defend it but it is a great risk. Time will tell.

[Richard Cate]

The Family is all important but the first of the social relationships is the ruler and his subjects. The Emperor is the father of all the people by the Mandate of Heaven. If you break the law of the Emperor you are breaking the law of the gods and ancestors. You must place your duty to your own father in subserviance to your duty to Father of all the people. You must turn him in or you are a traitor to your gods, ancestors, the emperor and to your father himself. Who can only be returned to the correct path by receiving judgement and paying his debt.

[Richard Cate]

If her were a pure Taoist he would not be inclined to commit crimes, belief in law or not. But I am sure there are people who claim to be and may even thinkthemselves to be Taoist that do commit murder, rape, treason. You must break from your inclination to right the Chi and return to the path of the Tao. 

[Daniella Leiato]

As a Confucian, I am torn beween maintaining my loyalty to my father or being loyal to the state. Under Confucian ideals, I should give all respect to the ruler under the Mandate of Heaven concept, which would mean turning my father in. However, he is also the head of the family and worthy of forgiveness -- all humans are inately good, right? I believe that I will ultimately allow my father the chance to make-up for whatever crime he has committed before deciding if I should turn him in for his crime.

[Martha Pao]

My father committed a terrible crime. What should I do?

I am living in a Legalist state.  The basic belief is that people are inherently selfish and that untoward behavior can be curbed with harsh punishment.  This is for the overall betterment and stability of society, and particularly for the advantage of the ruler.  The laws apply equally to all. So, if my father is found guilty, he will be punished- heavy fines (hey, we are a family, that might hurt me! Yes, Legalism is right: I am selfish!), or he could be conscripted to the army, he might even face death.  But, I love my father, and yes, Legalist thought does not concern itself much with morality, but that might be a weakness of Legalism.  (Are my Confucianism roots showing in the form of respect/love toward my elder?)

So then, the next question is: do I HAVE to report my father? If there is no law about reporting someone who has committed a terrible crime, then the obvious choice is to keep quiet.  “What you don’t know, won’t hurt you”, I tell the state. 

And what if there is a law that requires me to report any knowledge of a terrible crime?  Well, I could pretend not to know anything about this terrible crime.  Yes, welcome to plausible deniability!  What is the punishment for me if the state finds out that I knew and did not report my father?  Here is the selfishness again….

At the end of the day, blood is thicker than water.  And so long as the damage to myself is not too great (yes, that’s selfishness or rather self preservation) I could choose to not report my father.

Caveat: this is a thought exercise in a vacuum.  My deep assumption as a person living in a Legalist state is that the crime is not all that terrible, but it is considered terrible by the ruling class. (There’s a touch of Daoism here).  However, if morally I should believe that the crime is terrible indeed, my whole reaction might be a different one.

In conclusion: no matter which school of thought one lives in, we find influences from other philosophical traditions.  These philosophies are children of the times and are interwoven in the fabric of society.  Finding the balance between the schools of thought will bring stability to society.

[Sean Lobberecht]

Hello,

I am terribly sorry I am just responding to the news of my father's supposed crime. I have been away for the past few days trying to get closer to nature and have been unavailable. If you remember from previous correspondances, I was whole-heartedly against the idea of instituting these "laws" that you and others are so fond of. We may be good friends but you know where I stand as a Daoist, there should be no laws. In your letter to me informing me of the position my father finds himself in, you refer to him as a criminal. The only reason he is a "criminal" is because of these laws. If there were no laws there would be no criminals. You legalists always want to create systems that clash with the way nature is supposed to be. I will find a way to free my father from his predicament and if I have to break your "laws" to do so then so be it. 

 

[Guadalupe Moreno]

As a Daosit, I would defend my father. Believeing that we represent the true nature of the world, we live a life expressing the essence of spontanetiy. My father only "commited" a crime under the believes of the "leaglist", those which we do not follow. Therefore, I would not turn in my father. 

[clay dube]

Hi Folks, Love the expressions here and, especially, places where you folks engage with each other. Knowing one's opponents is vital.

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