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Home › Forums › Core Seminars › East Asia Origins to 1800, Spring 2021 › Session 10 - May 12
Bin He.
Miguel DiazI really liked the Northern Song cheat shirt with all the Chinese characters written on it, which were innocently tailored to refresh candidates’ memories during imperial examinations. I don’t mean to be critical, but the characters look too obvious with a plain background. I wonder if a tie-dye shirt would’ve worked better to hide the characters.
I am interested in learning more about the imperial examinations. I’d like to know if there is a definitive, or at least a highly reliable, source/book on the subject.
Richard CateToday we see a disturbing world wide trend to turn inward and become "National." We should look to what it cost the Chinese.
The Mongols were truely multi-national. Trade brought wealth, security and control to them. It rduced the desire to attack them because they were essential to the other nation's economies. They were strong and the cost of attacks were too costly in men and money to do more than talk big talk. For the Mongols all the new territories were buffer zones protecting what they truely cared about.
For the Ming the voyages of Zheng Ho brought new trade partners but it brought foreign (Non-Chinese) thought to the Middle Kingdom, weakening its purity. So the fleets were moored and left to rot. Non-Chinese thoughts and inventions were purged. "Make China Great Again" was he desire. but the world passed them by. in the century to come Western military technology left them far behind, and their country would be carved up, controlled and her resources be raped for decades to come..
World War II say America creating the Pax Americana and for half the world prosperity reached heights never seen before. America as the world's policeman has prevented another world war. We now tire of the responsibility, and want to turn inward. The vacume will be filled, Do we want to hand it back to the Chinese? Life is a circle.
I do not believe it was in the best interest of the Ming to withdraw from the world. I do not believe it is in our best interest either. But servive to others, to a higher purpose is out of fashion, as it seems is honor, but that is a subject for a different day.
(Forgive this sounding disjointed I am writing during breaks between classes.)
clay dubeHi Folks,
I've attached the Song-Yuan presentation in pdf format. I had to compress it down from >30mb. Please feel free to use it with students, but please do not share it or post it to the net. Thanks.
Miguel DiazIt doesn’t matter if Marco Polo actually visited China. As mentioned in the video lecture by Professor Dube, Marco Polo’s accounts of China are at least partially verifiable, such as his descriptions of Suzhou; and some of his omissions, such as foot binding, can be explained.
This leads to similar questions in the West. Who wrote the Bible? Were Homer’s descriptions in the Iliad and the Odyssey entirely his own? Were they composed by a single author? Interestingly, according to historian Donald Kagan, historians of ancient Greece treat the Iliad not just as a poem but as a historical record from which inferences are made and conclusions drawn.
Marco Polo’s accounts of China were more a testament to the power of storytelling and human creativity. Furthermore, they demonstrate how great storytelling is passed on from generation to generation. And where there is storytelling, there is embellishment.
Cynthia JacksonLast year in a department meeting, a team of sixth grade teachers presented a series of lessons they were doing where students were investigating the origins of a famous human skeleton. Their central question was something like “Where did this person come from?” They may have had students draft their own questions and investigate resources throughout the week to answer them. Until now, I’ve yet to hear a question that could provoke that level of authentic investigation in Grade 7 World Geography. I am fascinated by the theory that Marco Polo may not have visited Song China, particularly because I have always understood this story as a fact and because doubt in his story sets the foundation for students to investigate sources to find an answer to this question themselves. Posing the question “Did Marco Polo visit China?” allows students to develop a hypothesis after reviewing a “foundational” source before they analyze a set of sources from both European and Asian perspectives. This opportunity excites me because it also provides a chance for students to use many of Massachusetts’ Practice Standards including #2 “Develop focused questions or problem statements and conduct inquiries,” #4 “Analyze the purpose and point of view of each source; distinguish opinion from fact,” and #5 “Evaluate the credibility, accuracy, and relevance of each source”. These standards are sometimes the hardest to teach well throughout the year in ways that engage students. At the end of the investigation, students can present their original hypothesis and findings using an interactive presentation that showcases their evaluation of clues. On these slides of their presentation, students would be required to include a screenshot of each source with their summary of it broken down into the pieces of standard 5: credibility, accuracy, and relevance. I would probably have students present in a jigsaw style and rotate kids around the room so they will present several times to a different audience of their peers. Afterwards, students will complete a reflection in response to the prompt “Does it matter if Marco Polo never actually visited China? Explain why it does or doesn’t matter.” before we have a class discussion on the same topic.
clay dubeHi Folks,
Once again, a compressed pdf. Please feel free to use it with your students, but please do not otherwise share it or post it to the internet. Thanks.
clay dubePresentation attached. Usual request.
Morgan BurtIn regards to the in class discussion regarding silk, I found the modern day connections very interesting. It was mentioned that it was mostly produced within the home. Similarly to how some individuals today work from home to produce a craft or good. It was and is more convenient for these families to bring in additional income, with also being able to attend to household responsibilities. For a product that was so large and desired from China, I was surprised to learn that it was primarily produced within the home.
clay dubeLove that Todd highlighted this. Gavin Menzies retired from the British navy and dived into the idea that Chinese explorers got to what we call the Americas first. His paragraph neatly summarizes the divide. C-Span broadcast a talk he gave at India House in NYC (http://indiahouse.nyc/). The South Street Maritime Museum was a sponsor as well: https://southstreetseaportmuseum.org/. Here's the talk, posted by someone who calls the book pure fiction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtOdpy9gqPQ. Todd's provided an excellent collection of resources.
clay dubeOne of my teachers, Ben Elman, wrote the definitive study of the examination system in late imperial China: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520215092/a-cultural-history-of-civil-examinations-in-late-imperial-china He followed that book with a study of exams and meritocracy: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520215092/a-cultural-history-of-civil-examinations-in-late-imperial-china
Here's a free 6 page encyclopedia entry that Elman wrote: http://www.princeton.edu/~elman/documents/Civil%20Service%20Examinations.pdf
A more affordable book is Miyazaki's China's Examination Hell: https://www.amazon.com/Chinas-Examination-Hell-Examinations-Imperial/dp/0300026390/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_0/132-6368989-8186525?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0300026390&pd_rd_r=2f5c82dd-9ed1-4a7c-893f-4fab57c834f9&pd_rd_w=aOsmv&pd_rd_wg=bWqcJ&pf_rd_p=a0d6e967-6561-454c-84f8-2ce2c92b79a6&pf_rd_r=MGBFX48YEVYWTE8NTZVY&psc=1&refRID=MGBFX48YEVYWTE8NTZVY
Miguel DiazI believe that religion in American public schools has always been a sensitive subject. My first stint as a teacher with LAUSD lasted from 1997 to 2000. In my early days as a teacher, I understood that religion was not a topic that one could discuss freely in public schools. This understanding came from both my experience as a public-school student, and later, from my training and work as a public-school teacher. I didn’t think that any of this was out of the ordinary until I lived in China for an extended period of time.
Foreign teachers in China are strictly, and unequivocally warned, that proselytizing is forbidden both in schools and in public places. But the strange thing is: I actually never felt afraid to mention religion while teaching my students about western literature. I taught students at the primary, middle school, and high school levels. I made two things clear. One, that I was not promoting any type of religious beliefs. Two, that to understand the west they needed to at least attempt to understand the Judeo-Christian traditions which have shaped the west and which are often referenced in works of literature.
I taught mainly Asian kids. Most of my students were from mainland China – while some were from Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. I assumed that most of them were of the Buddhist faith, though I didn’t ask them. But I am sure I also taught followers of various other faiths.
I used to tell my students that all faiths are legitimate – and families and individuals have the right to believe in whatever religion they’d like – or even in no religion.
I dared to say this for many years in China, but I do not dare say such at any American public school. I oftentimes wonder if there really is a true separation of church and state in American K-12 public schools. I have known for many years that students are more likely to read “The Confessions" by Saint Augustine at secular private schools in America than they are at public schools.
Miguel DiazThanks Professor Dube! I’m looking forward to reading all three of your recommendations!
Johnny WalkerI’ve really gravitated toward the aphorisms and big ideas presented in these classes. Specifically, I’ve appreciated Professor Dube’s reminder that “History is not inevitable.” And, that “we must guard against inevitability in teaching.” Whether we teach non chronologically, engage our students in research projects, or use simulations and debate, I really enjoy the challenge to place our students in a frame of mind that engages them in argumentation and exhorts them to invest their passions and action in politics of the past, so they can realize the importance of their own duty and responsibility for determining our future through investigation and action.
In considering the weaving of the threads of fates, I realize that another subject consistently brought up in World History curriculums is the history and evolution of textiles. And, too often in 10th grade World History, it involves England to the exclusion of other locations. I understand that this is in service of demonstrating how the evolution of textile development was a significant factor in the Industrial Revolution. However, it is the only textile example I use in class. While I have used British sources to demonstrate the cottage industry, complementary gender roles in the division of labor, and subsistence farming and textile-making are inter-related in Western European history, I am looking forward to supplementing these now with Chinese and Japanese examples. In the powerpoint deck, there are images from the Song of women working a spinning wheel.
Likewise, in teaching the Agricultural Revolution and development of mills, I had previously used Dutch and English methods of harnessing wind and water. I’m eager to challenge my students (as I have been challenged) to incorporate Chinese (as well as Native American and African) examples. I realize that the Chinese should be the first example I use to demonstrate the technology humans created to manage water. I liked the powerpoint slides where Professor Dube introduced a primary source drawing of a village (like a Where’s Waldo of the 12th century) and circled three different examples of the utility of water- milling of grain, transportation, and cultivation. I’m going to adapt that into a peardeck slide where students will circle and explain why they circled a particular scene.
Johnny WalkerI really enjoyed “Zang Han’s Essay on Merchants” included in the excerpt from Ebrey, Ming Commercial Activities. It is a 16th century treatise on economics. It describes the wealth of the merchant class, its resistance to taxation, negotiations to create a more just tax structure, and explains differing motivations for China's trade with neighboring nations. Because I have taught European history, the primary sources I have used about economic thinking during this time period are Thomas Munn’s articulation of the principles of mercantilism in England which offer striking similarities to Zang Han.
The article following it, “The Biography of Zhu Jiefu” relates a story of a merchant whose generosity accompanies his great wealth. His hard work, resultant wealth and generosity, and belief in the righteous functioning of human beings under the “Heavenly Majesty” reflect a similar notion of Smith’s “invisible hand” two centuries later. Rather than use Adam Smith’s critique of mercantilism to introduce capitalism, I would much rather use a non European source. I have always chafed at the deification of Adam Smith’s theories as being somehow unique and brilliant. Both philosophies of mercantilism and capitalism are simply two sides of an argument about government regulation. Likewise in the American history narrative, the “taxation without representation” argument has been elevated to a quasi-religious status. Such arguments are not uniquely American, and are important to dispel especially in an age of hypernationalism in the United States. I’m curious what kind of parallels we can draw between resistance to the Mongol rule of China or the Manchurian rule of China with American resistance to the British Empire’s rule of American colonies. How similar are the Chinese arguments to imperial rule as the ones articulated by Paine, Jefferson, or Madison?
Since I began teaching eight years ago, I have been searching for content that undermines the notion of American Exceptionalism as well as content that debunks the singular genius of European Enlightenment Philosophers. While I believe it important to teach students how the American Constitution and particularly Jefferson’s writings are simply a greatest hits or mixtape of French, English, and Italian philosophes, I wanted to further deconstruct and demystify the “genius” of European Enlightenment philosophers to find examples in other parts of the world that demonstrate the universality and parallel reasoning common to any human being who strives for justice, freedom, and fairness. I believe that the content within Ebrey's "Ming Commercial Activities" does just that.
Jennifer MacchiarellaWhile I agree that it doesn't matter if Marco Polo went to China, the debate is fascinating. My students take Marco Polo as fact (and consider him the founder of the most annoying swimming game ever) but I think reading his descriptions as travel fiction could be an interesting way to combine history with literature. My classes are blocked LA/SS together, and this could a combined lesson. What elements do we know must be exaggerated or invented? What rings true based on other sources? Where are his European sensibilities clouding his interpretation of what he saw or was told about? How do we as humans deal with cultures that seem completely unknown? I also like science fiction as a comparison for this. Science fiction challenges us to look at what it means to be human. What assumptions about do Klingons have about honor? How are those different than ours? If we examine China not as an "exotic" destination but as a large, well functioning civilization that was in many ways more advanced than Europe, can we look at our own culture more critically?
While the comparison to Shakespeare is an obvious choice, I'm tempted to compare it to the historic? Jesus. Probably not a good idea in a public school.