Session 2 (February 13) - Hundred Schools Debate

[Jeric Pediglorio]

Father broke the law, father knew the law. What should I do?

As a Daoist ...nature,  not people, ultimately controls how things change. Therefore, humans and their rules are less important.

We see the Confucianist emphasis on culture and civilized society as unnecessary and rather unnatural. Father should not be punished by man. 

[Mishna Erana Hernandez]

I appreciate this perspective. As someone who doesn't remember learning about this school of thought, I can only suspect that Mohism was less popular because it challenged the central notion of heirarchy within the family and in the larger society. By stressing universal love, it directly challenged Conficianism. Legalists and Confucians in particular would've found it impractical to abandon filial structures. 

[Mishna Erana Hernandez]

If my father broke the law, knowingly, and I also knew of it… As a Daoist, societal rules and laws aren’t as important to me as the law of nature. The laws put forward by man are oppressive and, arguably, are what led my father to break the law. Having too many laws tends to conflict with the way of nature. Humans aren’t perfect, and, in fact, will never reach perfection. Through meditation, I hope that my father can find himself aligned with The Way once more. Harsh punishment will not lead my father to feel shame; it will only push him to find more devious ways to not get caught again. 

[Yao Jin]

As I represent confucianist school team , the best course of action in this situation is to consider my moral obligations and strive for justice. Confucianism teaches that justice must be upheld and puts emphasis on reconciliation and rectifying wrongs. As such, it's important to determine the consequences of the actions taken and address them in an appropriate manner. Depending on the severity of the crime and the impact it has had on those affected by it, a range of actions could be taken. 

I may wish to seek advice from my father and ask him to explain his actions and apologize for any harm that he has caused in privately.

If I fear that his actions have led to serious harm and violated any laws, I should seek advice from legal counsel as to how to proceed. I may also speak to a trusted mentor or another figure of authority to seek guidance, It is also important to not only consider justice and restoring balance, but also understanding, forgiveness and compassion - all of which are core concepts to be found in confucianism. If I’m confucianism I need respect and obey my father, I need trust him and forgive him.

[clay dube]

Mohism developed a following in response to the focus on the family preoccupations of others. Master Mo correctly assessed the dangers associated with privileging one's kin over all else, but he was also running into well-established customs, including ancestor worship (which helped establish the generational hierarchy that looms large for Confucians. Pragmatic and caring, Mohism had much to offer and many were drawn to it. You don't get official state support for Confucianism until the Han dynasty, partly in response to the extremism of the first emperor's form of Legalism. Daoism maintained a strong following (and a Daoist uprising will bring trouble to the Han) and at the much later Ming Court, Daoism loomed large. Many describe imperial norms as Legalism with a Confucianism.

[Denis Vovchenko]

 

As a prominent Legalist scholar, I would use my influence at the royal court and other high circles of power to obtain a pardon issued by our illustrious and generous sovereign. Long live the Emperor! Even if my father committed a crime, the Legalist school of thought advocated harsh punishments only for the lower classes who can’t otherwise control their base bestial instincts. There may be exceptions like my father who prove the rule that the educated gentlemen generally behave virtuously.

 

[Denis Vovchenko]

My experience with historical debates has not been very positive. Their success depends on all students’ preparing carefully and not taking offense if someone’s performance is not in keeping with today’s “political correctness.” I had two groups of students debate the Crusades and at least two students “forgot” that it was just a role-play and became upset.

 

[Terri Vest]

Today I read an article in a news source in which the author was lamenting the "indoctrination" of American youth in school.  There is obviously a negative connotation to the term and implies that teachers are somehow turning students toward particular modes of thought.  I find it an interesting contrast to the idea of Confucious.  After over 2,000 years, Confucious is venerated because of his role as a teacher---a person who helped others discover their own paths and to think for themselves.  I think that's what I still do as a teacher.  Why does American culture resist the idea of "teachers?"

I have conversations with my colleagues about our role in students' lives.  I contend that "teacher" is a critical role that promotes both personal and social development of students.  Why is that now seen by some Americans as bad?  Are they afraid of the power of education?

 

[Pooja Gupta]

1.     Can you use historical debate in your class, or have you ever used it before? In what way? (We would love to learn from your experience or ideas on implementing this!)

I have never used a debate in my class as I teach Physics to freshmen, which just takes a lot of time to teach the basics. But I think it would be fun if I could ask students to think about famous physicists and debate over the topic of whether there should be a patent for groundbreaking technology or not.

2.     Scenario: You found out that your father has broken the law, and he knowingly broke this rule. What should you do? (Please respond from the perspective of your school - Confucianism, Daoism, Mohism, Legalism)

As a Confucianism, if my father had broken the law, I would follow filial piety first and ask him what his thoughts were and why he took such a action. Then, I will follow the virtues of Confucianism, I would ask my father to follow confucius teachings and follow righteousness. I would stand by my father.  If he has to go through the trial if the law broken has really harmed someone, I will follow righteousness which is considered a higher virtue. 

[Isaac Esquivel]

So, father broke the law.  Arbitrary, unfair, and unjustly enforced, these laws are held over the head of the common man (or woman).  If we all took care for one another, looked out for one another, loved and cherished one another, these laws would not be necessary and therefore, need not be broken.  The only reason father broke the law is because the those in power have lost their ways.

[Isaac Esquivel]

If I'm not mistaken, Denis, you teach university students, right? I can very much imagine how some of these debates can go south in a hurry with highly opinionated (and maybe sensitive?) individuals.

By those standards, 3rd Grade was cake. Because of Black History Month, we've been discussing Historical Black figures and in 3rd grade, it's mostly the same people; MLK, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, etc. I usually like to talk about other less known figures figures as they relate to MLK, namely Mahatma Gandhi and Malcolm X (putting aside the fact that Gandhi was actually from India).  I bring up Gandhi for the influence he had on MLK, specifially his non-violent methods or protesting. Malcolm X I bring up for being the almost polar opposite of MLK and what his values were (at least the earlier version of Malcolm X).

In this manner, although not entirely a true "debate," I put forth a few scenarios and asked the class how a specific person would have responded to each of these scenarios. The class seemed to enjoy it and it sparked a few interesting discussions and conversations within the class and within themselves.

[Yao Jin]

My students had a great experience with their historical debates! Topic was 嫦娥和后羿是真爱，love or power(money). Students were able to research and study materials, then present their findings in a debate format. They had to think critically about their arguments and use evidence to back up their points. It was amazing to see how engaged they were in the process and how much they learned. They had to work together to come up with the best arguments and it was really interesting to see how their ideas evolved over the course of the debate. We had a lot of fun and it was a great learning experience for all of us. 

[Yao Jin]

My students had a great experience with their historical debates! Topic was 嫦娥和后羿是真爱，love or power(money). Students were able to research and study materials, then present their findings in a debate format. They had to think critically about their arguments and use evidence to back up their points. It was amazing to see how engaged they were in the process and how much they learned. They had to work together to come up with the best arguments and it was really interesting to see how their ideas evolved over the course of the debate. We had a lot of fun and it was a great learning experience for all of us. 

[Mishna Erana Hernandez]

I've yet to use historical debates in my classroom. Taking this class, and other recent conversations in general, have made me realize that I could bring debate into my Physics and Geology classroom. As someone pointed out in our last session, it's important to remember our past, as many of our choices and events today may still find themselves influenced by our past. I think about how to use history to bring up the debates on energy, climate change (how countries deal with it has a lot to do with historical and cultural relationships to resources). So while I haven't yet used them, I'm very much open to the idea and will be seeing where in my year plan it fits for next school year (maybe even this year). 

[Denis Vovchenko]

Hi, Isaac,

I am glad your 3rd graders are less sensitive to role play!

I like the idea of presenting polar opposites like Gandhi and Malcolm X in lieau of a role play!

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