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Home › Forums › Core Seminars › East Asia Origins to 1800, Spring 2021 › Session 2 - March 24
Deirdre Harris.
stubingRegister for the discussion session on Zoom here: https://usc.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJcpcumuqD0iHtX80NoBcKdGWnqm2C_5EDsU
For this session, let's explore early East Asia. Where did East Asians come from? Where did their civilizations begin? What were the key characteristics of those early cultures? How were the societies organized? With regard to the most influential Chinese philosophies of the formative period, what problems did these schools of thought seek to address? What sorts of societies did they wish to build? What kinds of knowledge were most respected?
For early China, there are two readings and an outline below. The first is a collection of translated "oracle bones" texts. What did the Shang rulers hope to learn from heaven? The second is a teaching guide for Chinese philosophy. For our discussion, we'll start with a four-sided debate and each of you will need to speak in favor of one of the schools (Confucianism, Daoism, Mohism, Legalism) and against the others. Please read the philosophy unit carefully and prepare to take a side. Come back here to see which school of thought you will need to represent. The questions on pages 46-47 of the curriculum unit are among those we'll take on in the debate.
Video #1: Early Chinese Philosophy
Required readings (pdf below) for origins to early empire:
Dube, Chinese philosophy (outline and curriculum unit)
Ebrey, Oracle Bones
"Peach Blossom Spring"
Optional readings:
Ebrey, Salt and Iron Debate
Video #2: Unification, Disunion and Reunification: Qin through Tang
Required readings (pdf below) for cosmopolitan China:
Ebrey, Attractions of the Capital
Optional readings:
Birch, Tang poetry
Ebrey, Zhu Xi disciples
Martha PaoHello,
Does anyone know what the life expectancy was in 490BCE? Thanks!
Todd RutleySchools of thought do not develop in a vacuum but in response to other social influences and/or schools of thought.
Social instability or socio-economic changes promote the questioning of social order and prevailing schools of thought. This can lead to dissent, revolts, and even a change in the social order for better or worse. In contrast, severe social stability enforced under despotic "legalist" rule destroys the creative vitality that can otherwise allow civilizations to advance.
The "Influences and Responses" explanation seems both analytically valid and is way to explain the story of history in a way that people understand (vs. dates & facts memorization).
Influences or causes of change can include: any weaknesses in current state; changes in technology that change farming (e.g., better irrigation or metal introduction) or military capabilities/tactics; or the development of commerce reflecting rising population and economic specialization.
The "Influences and Responses" explanation seems similar to the Arnold Toynbee idea of civilizational challenge and response (see refs).
Todd RutleyQuestion in Video 1 (5:00) What symbols of Chinese culture do we see in pop culture, and would students recognize them?
Tattoos with Chinese characters or symbols have become common in recent decades and students are very interested in this art form which has been practiced for 5,000-10,000 years in civilizations around the world.
Personally, I cannot understand why young Americans want Chinese character tattoos but there is something causing this demand (maybe just a desire to rebel against norms?). Young Chinese are also getting more tattoos according to sources below. What is causing this global phenomenon? How many East Asian countries have similar beliefs about tattooing?
The China Daily article below notes that tattooing was sometimes applied in ancient times to criminals and so tattoos were and still are today associated with criminality: "In modern China Chinese tattoos have grown somewhat of a stigma as being affiliated with organized crime and the criminal underworld."
The same sentence would be equally true restated as "In modern JAPAN and S. KOREA tattoos have grown somewhat of a stigma as being affiliated with organized crime and the criminal underworld."
There are many East Asian similarities in the history of tattoos, the reasons tattoos were applied, and how the tattoo stigma has persisted because of the association with punishment.
References
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/2011-03/15/content_12175139.htm
http://en.chinaculture.org/2014-12/30/content_589505_4.htm
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-china-tattoos-20190416-story.html
https://sites.wp.odu.edu/bodylore/2018/02/28/inked-and-exiled-a-history-of-tattooing-in-japan/
Todd RutleyThe Qin state was the second largest of the 7 warring states, located to the West of other states in the center/heart of East Asia (The rise & power of early China was inland, not coastal, as we learned in week 1). It successfully united the 7 states using "hard power" (military) supported by legalist principles.
Qin unification and the ending of the Warring States period was supported by the legalistic belief that only force could create the desired social stability the state required to become and stay strong. The fact that the 7 states were divided proved the inadequacy of the Confucian model and its assumptions.
The strategy of using military force (hard power) over moral suasion (soft power) reflects the belief that people are too selfish to do "the right thing" and that clear laws serve better to mandate order.
The legalist belief that that the purpose of rulers should be to "enrich the country, strengthen the military", minimizing and suppressing any other beliefs, contains both the explanation of how the Qin dynasty rose and also why it fell as it lost support amongst the confucianists and other literati. The fact that the same slogan ("enrich the country, strengthen the military") was adopted in Japan after the 1868 Meiji Restoration, and used to justify Japanese Imperialism and the invasion of China, shows the international influence of this philosphy of power over time. That both the Qin Dynasty and Imperial Japan were relatively shortlived and ended in defeat indicates an internal weakness of rigid authoritarian states. (The Qin Dynasty lasted 15 years and Imperial Japan lasted from 1968-1945 or 77 years)
Legalism as a philosophy of power is reflected by the "realist" school of state behavior in international relations. The realist school perspective explains both China today under the CCP & Xi Jinping and the USA in 2021. Both nations have many intellectuals & politicians that believe in their respective "historical exceptionalism" and thus they justify actions based on this concept. Legalism/Realism can be simplified as "might makes right" or "the end justifies the means" or "power flows from the barrel of a gun".
References and more reading
clay dube| Confucian | Mohist | Daoist | Legalist |
| Alonso, Karina | Alvarez, Johanna | Batres, Max | Brown, Anastasia |
| Bub, Taylor | Carothers, Ryan | Carvajal, Olivia | Cate, Richard |
| Corral, Tara | Del Cid, Jessica | Diaz, Miguel | Douglas, Alison |
| Evert, Sarah | Fleet, Camie | Garcia, Daniel | Gautam, Barsha |
| Gregg, Sharron | Harris, Deirdre | Haupt (Burt), Morgan | He, Bin |
| Jackson, Cynthia | Kang, Helen | Kidd, Jade | Kuropatkin, Jeannine |
| Leiato, Daniella | Li, Xiaozhen | Lobberecht, Sean | Laguna-Caturegli, Julie |
| Macchiarella, Jennifer | Melgoza, Melina | Moreno, Guadalupe | Pao, Martha |
| Pian, Ping | Privitera, April | Prudencio, Cristina | Rabena, Aaron |
| Robinson, Kimberly | Rutley, Todd | Torres, Jacqueline | Walker, Johnny |
| Watterson, Hope | Reed, Liana |
clay dubeFor the debate, you and your schoolmates (fellow Confucians, Mohists, Daoists or Legalists) will need to argue in support of "your" school of thought and against those of others. Here are some of the questions we'll look at:
1. What is the basic nature of human beings?
2. Describe the organization and conduct of an ideal society. How is it organized? What are aims of the state and how do the people and the state interact? To whom do we owe loyalty?
3. What are the core components of education in that ideal society? How are people taught? What are they taught?
4. How can we move from the society we have to the ideal one? What is to be done?
You can prepare by reading the philosophy teaching guide. As you read, try to answer the questions on pages 46-47 for each of the schools.
clay dubeGreat question - no real data to answer this conclusively, but most who made it to adulthood would have made it to 40-60. Infectious diseases and threats from drought, flooding, and war were evident. Today, the things that kill people in East Asia are similar to what kills people in the US (cardiovascular problems, cancers). Confucius's formula for self-cultivation shows a) it's hard and takes a long time and b) was probably beyond most people.
Todd RutleyDespite being an original philosophy pre-dating many others from the Warring States period, Mohism declined in China after the Qin Dynasty. Many possible explanations are below.
In brief, Mohism opposed many ideas, values and vested interests of the era. Thus it had more powerful and numerous opponents and enemies than proponents.
1. Mohism is opposed to Confucian family-loyalty relationships. It says that “universal love” (jian’ai 兼愛 ) – which can be described as the “golden rule” of impartiality and reciprocal treatment between all people - is better than clannish family and socially hierarchical practices advocated by Confucianism. Being against such an accepted and seemingly natural concept guarantees opposition from Confucianists. Mohism also could be depicted as “anti-family” because “universal love” would mean that a father should NOT give preferences to his own son and his own family over others.
2. Mohism is opposed to offensive wars because of the impartial reciprocity concept of “universal love”. Mohism supports aiding the defenders under attack. Advocating against offensive wars, and supporting defenders, guarantees opposition from the Legalists and others that support military expansion/power.
3. Mohism rejects the idea of the Mandate of Heaven (天命,Tiānmìng ) embraced by Emperors starting in the Zhou dynasty. The rejection of this idea guarantees that Mohism will be opposed by rulers that want to be obeyed and revered by the people who accept their rule based on the heavenly mandate. Mohists put forth the will of Heaven (tianzhi 天志), which is less deterministic and thus not an excuse for bad things that occur like natural disasters.
4. Mo Zi (470-391 BCE) was born in a poor commoner family. Arising from poverty, outside the elite, is never a source of power and is usually a liability for politicians both then and now.
5. Mo Zi’s family name “Mo” meaning “ink mark” was rare and possibly refers to having being tattooed. Since tattooing was a punishment given to criminals in the classical era this association would have been negative. This association could be a mark on his reputation.
6. Mohism advocated that moral and material matters be understood through rational inquiry. It was opposed to spiritual or divine interpretations. The Mohist belief in human reason and discourse, even putting it above the views of ancient muses, would be opposed by rulers who relied on traditional beliefs to justify rule.
7. Mohist philosophy can be interpreted as being “utilitarian” – promoting the view that the ideal social outcome is that which promoted “the greatest good for the greatest number.” This idea is anathema to the elites with an excess of wealth who view it as a threat to their power.
Mohism contains many of the elements of a successful (ancient) philosophy: it was mostly rational in inquiry and sought to understand how to achieve the greater good through impartial "utilitariam" analysis (see Bentham on utilitarianism). But its superiority in these regards may have been the cause of its demise because it raised questions and led attacks that were opposed by many vested interests.
Instead of success, Mohism was forgotten. Philosophies opposite to Mohism were predominant in China from 221 BCE to 1911. From the Qin dynasty onwards, the combination of moralistic Confucian beliefs with authoritarian Legalist practices became the standard Chinese philosophical tradition. The passing of Mohism was a loss for China.
References
https://chinatxt.sitehost.iu.edu/Thought/Mohism.pdf
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mohism/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/utilitarianism-history/
Justification by Heaven: A Comparative Analysis of Political Legitimacy in Confucianism and Mohism
Hope WattersonEarly Chinese symbols, particulary the symbol of Yin-Yang have been (and remain) a part of the popular culture in the U.S. for decades. I first became aware of the Yin-Yang symbol as a teenager in the 1970's when there was an upsurge of interest of Chinese culture. I think this was caused by a popular t.v. show called Kung-Fu with David Carradine, and also the popularity of Bruce Lee films. Back then, the Yin-Yang symbol was everywhere; tatoos, bumperstickers, notebooks, patches, etc. Yin-Yang became a shortcut for explaining the differences between men and women. While cultural symbols are important, it is also important to be aware of cultural appropriation, which dishonors groups of people and has racist connotations. Fortunately, today we have become more aware of and sensitive to the issue of cultural appropriation. It is a very small step in the right direction.
Liana ReedHi Professor,
I was definitely in attendance 3/17. Thank you!
Richard CateThe symbol of the Yin and Yang is too often looked at just as a set of opposites: Darkness and Light, Masculine and Feminine, good and Evil, Perhaps more importantly Order and Chaos. Often overlooked is that there is a part of the opposite at the core of the other.
We all desire Order, but without Chaos there is stagnation. Most of Human invention comes out of war or disaster, when we are forced to stretch our boundries and find solutuons to problems we never imagined beforehand. We are at our best in these times when working as a group is needed for success and we feel enfiched because of our part in that mutual effort. Then we fall back into the search for wealth, power and self-gratification until we create another disaster. It is the way of the Dynastic Cycle, which can be observer not only in governments but in every aspect of our lives from business to our personl relationships. Success leads to complacency, diminished cooperation and very often to failure.
Who was it that asked "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" It is nothing! It requires Cooperation, working together for a common goal to produce that sound.
Todd RutleyTattooing typically has been associated with criminality but it is not always negative. In this example, the tattoo is patriotic. Maybe Yue Fei was an original "Wolf Warrior"?
https://www.theworldofchinese.com/2018/05/exceptional-mothers-in-ancient-times/
https://service.goodcharacters.com/daily/20170801-most-famous-tattoo.html
Taylor BubWhat did the Shang rulers hope to learn from heaven?
I loved the oracle bones text. I found it so interesting that not only were the bones themselves used in the divination rituals, but that those same bones were then used as a place for the inscriptions. It reminds me of many other cultures (thinking Egyptian, Greek, etc.) that look to divine powers to discover a lot of different information. The Shang rulers used these bone rituals to divine things like whether a child born would be 'good' (a boy) or 'not good' (a girl). This made me think of how in Chinese culture, boys are of more value than girls - when it comes to giving birth in more recent years, I believe that perants in China were only able to have one child (I believe this law has been abolished as recently as 2015), but many were able to petition the government to have another child if their first child was a girl. I wonder if the value of children is something that has stayed consistent from before the late Shang (ca. 1200-1050 B.C.).
Martha PaoThank you! When I saw the ages listed in Confucius' self cultivation poem I did get the sense that most people would not live until their 70s. And people in their 50s and 60s, in 490 BCE, they might have looked more like our current day 80 and 90 year olds. At that age they might have gained an "understanding of the will of the heavens" but also are likely to be more mellow and less likely to start a revolution. (We all know of exceptions, of course, for example Anthony Fauci, who in his 80s is still quite spirited. But for the most part, people in their 70s and 80s are less feisty than younger people). Now in terms of controlling the masses, Confucius is most clever in setting an aspirational goal: most people will be able to reach a "sense of understanding" in their 40s! Therefore, in a society that adheres to Confucianism, most people will devote any free time to become better. It is possible that civil unrest will be mostly eliminated under the guiding idea that one needs to be older, wiser and have studied more before being able to have a true "understanding of the will of the heavens". It's a good philosophy for an emperor to adopt.