Session 3 - March 28 readings (dube- china qin/han - song/yuan)

[Meghann Seril]

I found connection to the "Four Poems on Wine" given our current social distancing situation, especially the line in the second poem, "Only, the perceptions that one has while drunk Cannot be transmitted after one is sober." How true and how wise. 🙂 I would like to use some of these poems with my students to talk about imagery and figurative language. I might assign pairs of students different poems and have them draw the images described in the poem, focusing on the feelings created by the poet's word choice.

The thought that most stuck with me from the lecture was the idea that after China closed itself off, following the An Lushan rebellion, it started to decline. In light of our current climate I think about the idea that although we are facing health, social, and economic hardship, we would be better off staying connected and open. I was encouraged this week to see doctors from Cuba and China going to Italy and the UK to help fight this pandemic. No one can fight this alone and we must try to stay connected despite our isolation.

[Meghann Seril]

I like the idea of using the themes as a lens through which to consider the historical eras we study in our curriculum. Because we study the history of Los Angeles, I think discussion of the benefits and consequences of being an open or closed society would be something my students could engage in. I certainly think that discussion could be had about our current crisis situation. I would also like to have the deeper discussion with my students that history is not just a set of facts but is open to interpretation. I think that can bring these events alive for my students and help them understand the importance of studying historical events. Something I need to be better at is finding sources that present all viewpoints on a historical event, then letting students draw their own conclusions.

[Esther Dupree]

I know I am supposed to defend Confucianism in the upcoming meeting, but his debate is going to make that difficult, haha.  I think it is a great piece of history as we can see some very educated discourse on complex allocation and regulation of resources and mercantile liberties.  The scholars do an excellent job of calling out the government leaders for their corruption and exploitation of their control of the market.  They accuse the leaders of cornering the market on goods so they can make the most profit.  They also have the ability to force the market to make what they want and then charge what they want so that the people are burned multiple times on having to give up production of normal products and forced to sell to the government at a low price and then forced to buy their goods at a higher price.  This definitely plays out in many nations around the world today.  I think the scholars' defense of Confucianism is a mechanism to call the government corrupt and that a corrupt government cannot serve the needs of the people.  However, the conclusions the Confucians draw seem naive.  They think that just by having moral leaders, everything will fall into place including the economy and diplomacy.  Both sides are trying to keep what they want and not acknowledge any of the benefits of their opponents--another parallel to today's political climate.  I think this would be a great class project to have students pick a side and find modern day parallels to that group's ideology and to present them in class.

[Esther Dupree]

I had to go and find the original source to see if this was sattire.  It doesn't seem to be.  These seem to be illustrated stories that have traditionally been passed down orally as model behaviors of Chinese children to their parents.  I guess I seem so shocked by it because they are so different from western fairy tales.  Even the European ones often talk about a moral underdog being launched into wealth and comfort due to their personal hard work and integrity and often neglect relational obligation.  This collection seems like a book an overbearing parent would give their child.  However, I am really touched by how family based Confucianism is.  I think we have gone the opposite direction in our modern culture, to the point that the idea of filial devotion seems like a joke.  I also thought it was amusing how in many of the stories the outcome wasn't grandiose wealth and power and notoriety, but a modest increase in socioeconomic status.  The difference in values are so evident from reading this.  We have people in our country today who want to be famous for doing almost nothing and even feel entitled to it.  This shows the value of modesty and devotion.  Clearly, it is quite an overbearing and exaggerated sense of circumstances, but the heart of it has a lot to offer.

[clay dube]

Meghann and Billie have already raised great questions/ideas. We can link discussions to the importance of waterways and infrastructure. Right now, when we're linked electronically, we can more fully appreciate how vital electric power and telecommunications are. Talking about roads, walls, and canals in ancient China can help students think about all the invisible infrastructure we rely on daily.

[clay dube]

Thanks -- let's keep it going. What do the rest of you think about this story? What does the author seek to convey?

[clay dube]

It is great to see how the values of those core philosophical schools filter into the discussions of how to implement/apply those ideas in everyday life. Perhaps you can find ways for students to discuss the messages of those filial piety stories. Esther mentions Western fairy tales. Do we have contemporary examples that celebrate caring for parents or grandparents?

[Cynthia Stults]

The filial piety classic and cartoons were pretty surprising to me and were in direct contrast to the values I was raised with, and I wonder if I was alone. I definitely grew up respecting my parents, but they made it clear, that their mission and goals were to make sure that their children were well cared for and happy and that they would sacrifice anything necessary to achieve that. The cartoon that most struck me was that of the parents who were willing to kill their child because the grandmother was giving him part of her food. My parents will not even allow us as children to take them in once they are too old to live in their home. We have strict instructions (and legal documentation) that they are to be put into a nursing home when the time comes so that they will not inconvenience us. I'm not sure if that is a Western idea, or if my parents are just nutty, but I don't think I know anyone who would sacifice their child's needs for those of their parents.

 

It does make sense that promoting this ideal could influence the population to be obedient to whatever ruler is in power, and it does explain why the simple mention of meeting with a parent over behavior or academics can send my Chinese students into a panic.

[Cynthia Stults]

In the literal sense, the fisherman found what a society that had achieved immortality, enlightenment, and peace. In the text it tell us that he lost his fear, as well as his apathy- he went from being unaware of what was happening in his boat and only caring about the wine, to having hundreds of questions to ask the society he discovered 

The story conveys the values of seeking peace instead of war, and focusing on agricultural pursuits instead of warring, and punishing, like the Qin did. The society that abandoned the Qin lands were rewarded with immortality while those who remained suffered

[Cynthia Stults]

I'll admit i'm somewhat torn on this one. On one hand, one could argue that with various groups breaking off, they are more prone to isolation (like the society in Peach Blossom), and thus a lack of exchange of ideas, goods, etc. One could also argue that disunion/warring states can lead to development in certain areas. If one is constantly warring or skirmishing with neighbors, then better weapons and military tactics need to be developed, and possibly even food storage and preservation techniques, knowing that less time and resources can be devoted to farming- necessity is the mother of invention, after all. 

[Sandra Flores]

The Song of Everlasting Sorrow is beautiful. It is a beautiful love story with a tragic ending.  My question for this poem is, can the love of a nation be greater than the love for a person?  By the way the woman is described in this poem, we can infer that the emperor truly admired her beauty and her presence, but did he really love her.  We know that she did because she states that they will be together in the afterlife, but what about him? What if he finds someone as beautiful as her again. 

I really enjoyed the poem "To Someone Far Away". I believe this to be linked to the "The Song of Everlasting Sorrow".  Could this be a poem the emperor wrote to this lover?  

The poem "Recruiting Officer at Shih-Hao Village" reminds me of the poems written the Salvadoran Civil War.  The majority of those poems are about the lost lives of young men due to war.  I can use this poem with my AP students and we can discuss the sorrow mothers go through during wars.  Although men are usually the ones in combat, women carry a great burdern during war.  

[Sandra Flores]

I would like to know more about the women role during the Han Dynasty.  What interests me the most is Ban Zhao's Admonition for Women.  This can be applied in my AP Spanish class.  We can compare and contrast two different documents written by and for women and talk about how that shaped gender roles during that period of time.  We can also discuss how this writtings affect today's society and if they are still applicable.  

[Sandra Flores]

The fisherman lost his track of his destination and found a village of people who had left the Chi'n to find peace.  Although they told him not to say a word, he went back and reported to the prefect who tried to find this village.  The story conveys the value of bieng grateful.  I believe the fisherman was very ungrateful.  He was fed and treated nicely, yet could not respect the people's desires.  

[Esther Dupree]

I know just about every civilization has at least one female leader that we can spend a lot of time puzzling about because they are so few.  I wonder if there has been any formal research papers comparing her to Catherine the Great or Queen Elizabeth I.  And I wonder how much of her reported 'negative' actions and traits were actually attributable to her.  Historians write history and we often see grudges come out in historical records.  I did find a shorter piece comparing Catherine the Great, Empress Wu and the legendary (if likely fictional) Popess Joan--https://eastwest.eu/en/the-tsarina-the-empress-and-the-popess/.  Since she was the only female Emperor, I wonder what actions were taken by government leaders and bureaucrats to prevent women from ascending the throne again.  

[Samantha Auerbach]

What a wonderful story. As I was reading it I was feeling so happy for this man who was having a bad day. It seemed to quickly turn around for him and he found this wonderful, abundant valley with so many resources. However, he took that for granted, rightfully so. He was happy to have found such a beautiful place. It conveys a few values. First, that even during a time of sadness, you can find light at the end of the tunnel. On the contrary, it also conveys that you should respect the wishes of others. The people of this village didn't want anyone to find them. They were happy in their solitude and didn't want what was happening in the rest of the country during that time to happen to them. However, the fisherman did not respect their wishes. Another value it conveys is that sometimes we need to be accepting and try new things.

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