Session 3 - March 28 readings (dube- china qin/han - song/yuan)

[Brigid Schmidt]

It was interesting that even though other people could not find this utopian place, they still believed him. History shows us cultures are able to have blind faith, believing without seeing. I question what people in today’s society would do in this situation. Did people just hope so badly for a perfect, wonderful place that they were able to believe in this take?

[clay dube]

The legalists have started to weigh in on what to do with our law-breaker elder. I'm anxious to hear what others think.

GREAT DISCUSSION TODAY - THANKS EVERYONE!

[Brigid Schmidt]

As a legalist, it is hard for me to imagine why anyone would break the law, let alone my own parents. As a child, they put in place rules for me, so how are rules or laws hard for them to follow now? Perhaps they are just being selfish and living in the past. While I am saddened that my parents have done this, I cannot defend their actions. The laws apply to everyone. Without these laws, there would be utter chaos. 

[Billie Johnson]

Well, it happens right?  Sometimes parents take the old saying 'do as I say and not as I do' too far!  Anyhow, since their inherent goodness was tested I would first ask who they started hanging around. I would ask them to recount the teachings of Confucius, how they raised me, and how their actions could disrupt the harmony of our society; they need to not only think of themselves but of all society. After I am finished shaming them I would then ask them what they think would be a just punishment for said crime. Perhaps they would suggest reeducation of Confuscian teachings and then to proclaim the lessons learned to all those affected by their moment of recklessness. All is not lost because humans are good by nature and those people who negatively influenced them need our help to be set on the right path with proper education.

[Esther Dupree]

As a Confucian, morals and values are in place for a reason.  We must do our best to live up to these ideals as best we can.  The only reason I have had a life any any success in it is due to my parents devotion to loving and teaching me what is right.  It is my duty as their daughter to accept any punishment on their behalf.  I was not a perfect child and they suffered many punishments for my misbehavior.  I have the honor and duty to accept this punishment for their mistakes.  When we are selfish and only look out for ourselves, our society will break down and there will be nobody around to help lift each other up.  If I can start by lifting my own family up, this will help others grow and be lifted as well.

[Billie Johnson]

Really enjoyed reading The Attractions of the Capital...Using this as a primary source, I could assign a writing activity where students write about similar goings on in their communities using imagery. This can be an extension of a poetry unit as well. Of course we will have our topics that we would cover...excluding hustlers, and hone in on those detailed environments in a descriptive way. The Debate on Salt and Iron was compelling in that you read a first hand account of a clash of ideals. Again, this could be used in class as an excellent example of how to debate. Instead of having students debate verbally, they can debate in writing...which would drive most of them crazy.  I don't know about anyone else here, but my students have to put pencil to paper in my classes. 24 Stories of Filal Devotion can be used when discussing history without writing in terms of storytelling.  I would love to hear stories or traditions that have been passed down in my students' families.  We did this once and it was a wonderful exercise. So many healthy conversations driven from this topic.

Question about the Penal Servitude In Qin Law: I wonder why these laws are so specific.  Were these laws made up as crimes were committed?

[Sandra Flores]

I believe that my parents did wrong but they should not receive any punishment from society.  As elders we have to respect them and believe that they broke the law because they thought this was righteous.  Confucianism has taught us that family and our elders should be honored and respected. My parents will learn from their mistake and will become better humans. 

[Hilda Dixon]

When I was a special education teacher for students with autism, every year, during March, I got together with other general education teachers to celebrate women's history month. Undoubtedly, Ban Zhao deserves worldwide recognition because I imagine it was not easy to be recognized by the empire as a scholar and to be given the duty to complete her brother's work regarding writing the chronicles of the Han Dynasty .

[Jessica Ng]

My parents have lost their moral uniformity with our social order. Judgement of their actions and their consequences should not be left to me, nor to the people they wronged. This would indeed lead to chaos. Only our wise, benevolent officials can carry out Heaven's Will and evaluate what must be done in order to maintain social order. May my parents learn from this and strive to only attain good consequences hereafter!

[Alma Ochoa]

Interesting point!  It would be interesting to compare and contrast women ruler’s ‘negative’ actions to male rulers who were in power before and right after a female ruler.

[Alma Ochoa]

I think that's a great idea, kind of like the projects that all my kids made in the 4th grade.  Where they studied the Missions of California and then each one picked a Mission that they learned more about and then made a model of it.  This would be more of a collaborative project were the students in the entire class build the town together instead of individually creating their own.  Love this idea : )

[Billie Johnson]

First, I would just want to introduce invisible infrastructure to my students. Discussing the vitality of telecommunications that I think students are aware of and then looking at how information traveled in Ancient China could be compared to dial-up; although I highly doubt my students know anything about dial-up. 

[Samantha Auerbach]

As a Mohist, if I knew that a family member had broken the law I would be devastated. I believe that there should be grounded moral, ethical, and political order to ensure that concern for all was fair. I treat people based on their relationship to me therefore I would be incredibly upset if a family member broke the law. For if any other person did, I would expect the proper punishment. It doesn't matter who the person is to me. 

[Samantha Auerbach]

Your response is so well-said, Jessica! You beautifully encapuslated how a Mohist would feel if their family members broke the law. As a fellow Mohist, I agree! There is only so much I can do and I hope they can learn from their mistakes once they have served the appropriate consequence for their actions. 

[Samantha Auerbach]

I wanted to come back to this response because after we discussed it in our zoom meeting, I agreed with what we said and felt that my comprehension of the text shifted. I know see it as an imaginary situation. The man saw what he wanted to see. The people just wanted to live their lives close to nature and away from people and the growing world around them. They were Daoists and wanted to be left alone. Perhaps the fisherman was reflecting on the person he wanted to be in this fantasy. 

 

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