Session #3 - March 4, Clay Dube

[Brenda-Jean Shephard]

I don't know about you, but I have a hard time keeping track of all the characters in the Early China drama, partly because their names seem to change a lot.  I often have to google them to keep them straight.  Dr. Dube mentioned that someone named Li Si assassinated Han Fei.  Trying to fit that in to the narrative, I searched both men.  They were in fact contemporaries, living from 280-208 bce and 280-233 bce respectively, but the account says philosopher Han Fei committed suicide while Li Si was Prime Minister to the First Emperor Qin Shi Huang.  Looks like he was a significant player in the sweeping changes introduced during the 14 remarkable years of the Qin "dynasty."  One historian (John Knoblock of Stanford University) considers Li Si "one of the two or three most important figures in Chinese history."  As the power behind the very significant throne of the first emperor, Li Si had an enormous amount of influence on political policy, such as moving away from nepotism in the appointment of government officials, and softening legalism (Wikipedia says he "relaxed taxes and the draconian punishments inherited from Shang Yang." (Xunzi Volume 1. p 37. Knoblock))

I can't retell the whole story, but Li Si was instrumental in the brutality against either scholars or priests (accounts differ), and apparently he convinced Han Fei to commit suicide--so yes, he basically assassinated him.  Interestingly, he later convinced or tricked the FIrst Emperor's oldest son Fusu to commit suicide.  (How grisly!  I guess that's how he dealt with people he considered an impediment to his own interests.)  He allied himself with another government official, Zhao Gao, and the First Emperor's youngest son, Huhai (or Qin Er Shi???).  But Zhao Gao turned on Li Si and Huhai/Er Shi, and that was the end of them.

Life was treacherous in those times!  Politics was a risky game to play.  In the end, Li Si's entire family was wiped out.  Karma?  I think that's a different philosophical system altogether...(or is it really?)

[Dennis O'Connell]

As the son of a Daoist, I recently witnessed my father breaking a "law".  What are laws?  Usually they are the machinations of imperfect humans.  Why create laws?  Aren't the laws of nature enough?  By making up new taboos, rules, and laws, you are just creating opportunities for people to break these codes and receive a label of "criminal".  Laws, regulations, and morality are all oppressive tools used by the greedy and ambitious.  Can't you be content observing the natural world around you rather than trying to catch people in traps you set?  As a Daoist, I am very tolerant.  I recognize that what is viewed as evil by one person can be viewed as good by another person seeing it from different circumstances.  You ask me what I am going to do about my father?  Nothing!  Why should I get involved in his affairs?  Do camels turn each other in to some tribunal?  I think not!  I am content to live and let live.  I wish you would do the same.  

[Dennis O'Connell]

Thank you for yet another full and insightful sesson!  I appreciated the mental exercise of arguing the position of one of the schools.  It is difficult but valuable work to put oneself in the sandals of someone else, trying to think and act like them.  I want to use some form of this exercise in my own classroom.  Working with second and third graders, instead of focusing on the schools of philosophy, I think I will focus on being a citizen of an Asian nation.  What is it like to be from China?  North Korea?  South Korea, etc.  As a class, we can break up into various country groups.  Each group could research the country and gather background information like population, important imports and exports, political system, etc.  My students could then "become" a citizen of that country and become an "expert".  The "experts" could then be used to teach other groups what they have learned.  

[Scott Craig]

I love your idea of comparing the Qin Dynasty Penal Servitude with current polices, such as the worker who stole one of the terracotta warrior's heads in the 1980s. I teach AP history and one of the main things they focus on is viewing issues across time. I think this is a great skill to develop, and one that can be started in elementary school.

[Scott Craig]

As a true legalist, it is my solemn duty to turn my father in to the authorities. It does not matter that he is my father, it only matters that he broke the law and the law applies to everyone. If everyone were to make exceptions for their family members, then nobody would obey the law. If I don't turn my father in, I will be guilty of a serious crime and subject to punishment. It is only when everyone obeys the laws that we can have true order and prosperity. 

[Dan Thalkar]

My father broke the law. Since I am a responsible and dutiful son, I was helping him with a task at the time and, therefore, saw him commit this act. As a Confucian, my highest responsibility is to my father. As such, I considered not turning him in. Filial piety would encourge me to respect my family and trust my father's actions, even if they break the law. After reflecting further, however, I realized that the empire is simply a large family, with the Emperor as our father. In breaking a law, my father broke from ritual and Confucian tradition. I must honor my relationship with the emperor and turn my father in, trusting the emperor to make a just and wise decision. 

[Stephanie Rodriguez]

I am a young Daoist girl who just saw her father break the law. But as a true Daoist I must ask, what is law? Is it not just man’s attempt at being civilized, which in Daoist beliefs, is wrong? And this law that he broke, was it even a right law to begin with? Who made this law? If it is not the law of nature, then does it really matter? And if it is the law of nature, then nature has probably already taken care of it, in which case what is the point of turning him in now? Wait, what if the law he broke was that he followed or attempted to follow Confucianism or Maoist beliefs? In which case he must be stopped or else he might be brought to a violent end (or so we are told but this wont happen yet, at least not during this school of thought). I am so confused now, I’m just going to let things be. What ever is meant to happen will happen, and that’s how it should be, because no Daoist really knows.

[Heidi Kwalk]

I am a Confusciast. I am the eldest son of three sons in the family. My mother has been supporting me ever since I could remember and in every way possible so that I, as the eldest son in the family, could study and pass the exam for government official job serving the emperor in the palace. This way, I will be able to bring more respect and pride to the family name. I am currently in the deepest dilemma I have ever experienced; I have witnessed my father knowingly breaking a law. As a Confucian, my filial duty goes to not only my father but also to the emperor of our country whom I am working so hard to serve loyally some day. As a Confucian, however, I believe I am nothing without my father. He is the reason I exist. I cannot possibly bring ruin to my father. How would that make me a good loyal Confucianist subject to my emperor in the future? The best path for me is to give up going into government office. If I report my father to the authority, it will bring the end to our family name in which case, I will not be able to move up in government ranks anyway. If I keep quiet, I will at least be able to keep the family name and remain loyal to my family. My father made a mistake but good Confucist said that all people are able to improve himself.

[Ricardo Reyes]

Being my father's son, I chose to remain loyal to Confucian teaching and to my father's honor to remain loyal and supportive of his good reputation. I knew he had done wrong but my duty is to be strong at his side and defend him and any accusations whether they are right or wrong. For in my heart, I know my father has been dutiful to his family, first and foremost, he has always respected his wife, my mother, and been a caring and loving father to all of my siblings. I know not what happened to make my father respond as he did in making a fateful judgement. As far as I know, this is the only incident in his lifetime which he has slipped up. As his son, It is my obligation to hold our family together from any onslaught against our patriarch and in consequence, our family's reputation. I can only be concerned with his dignity under fire and that he will know his son and family are stronger now than we have ever been before. 

[Jimmy Martinez]

As a farmer and true legalist I would definitely turn my father in to the authorities as we believe in direct and harsh punishments. The law favors no individual man and is therefore applies to ALL MEN. Although he is my father and it pains me deeply to turn him in it is still the right thing to do. I could not live with such a dirty concious and our society would not be able to flourish to its fullest capacity if we bend the rules for a few. Harsh punishments are the only way for a society to learn their lesson. Sorry father but you knew the rules when you broke them and you shall reap what you sow!!

[clay dube]

Great to read all the thoughts about how best to deal with one's law-breaking father. Confucians feel a duty to remonstrate with him, to tell him they feel he did wrong and must make amends, that he must be a proper good-example setting father (rectification of names). Mohists have similar ideas, but note that one should feel similar responsibility to educate ALL fathers who stray (universal love). Daoists aren't much concerned, particularly if they judge the law to be unnatural in some way. Legalists didn't blink, but rather just turned dad in, knowing they would be liable if they failed to do so. Legalists see one's primary responsibility as being to the state.

Thanks for all the great responses. Please suggest other questions that might get students thinking about how these philosophies might work in action.

[Tiffany Chang]

I am a Confucian and the son of my father who commited a crime. My duty as a son is to honor him as he is my role-model, my teacher, and my provider. How can I betray him, even though he knowingly commited a crime? This is a tough decision for me as I see how we are all to respect and honor our emperor, which includes my father. How could he disobey him? I will not turn him in, but if my father continues this path of commiting crimes, I will have to as our emperor is our ultimate father. 

[Christine Moguel]

Thank you for the link on the Terracotta army warrior sculptures.  My students understand concepts through a variety of adapted strategies - and showing them actual pictures of the warrors after the youtube video just made everything more understandable - abeit, strange for them.   I showed my class the video and they were all amazed a bit perplexed with how and why they were created and moreover, part of funerary art that was buried with the first emperor of China Qin Shi Huang.  It was fun to juxtapose pictures of egyptian art that too was buried in the tombs of Egyptian Kings/Royalty.   I probably could have extended the lesson to have them create their own - protection miniature scuplture with clay.  Hmm... maybe I will.

 

[Kim Leng]

I enjoyed reading Tao Yuanming’s Peach Blossom Spring story. What an amazing description of a utopia.  Peach blossoms blooming along a river. A young woman picking sunflowers. Fisherman Wen walked into a valley that appears to be fruitful and self-contained. "In front of him stretched a great valley filled with fields, gardens, bamboo and mulberry groves, and clusters of small, white houses. Figures in brightly coloured clothes were working in the fields under a pale blue sky, dappled with thin clouds."

The people in this valley is living a life in a scenic environment with land that is definitely fertile.  They have gardens and beautiful fields of flowers.  The people wear beautiful colorful clothes and the weather appears perfect.  It’s even got “thin clouds” and blue sky.

Have students come up with their own version of a utopia.  What would that look like?

[Ricardo Reyes]

Kim, your take on this sweet short piece prompted me to give it a close look. Somehow, I had overlooked it and was curious to read it. Your suggestion to have students come up with their own version of a utopia is a great suggestion. How would you conjure up an utopia, what would it look like, and how would you ensure that peace reigned rather than war and conflict? Yao Yuanming's description is very enchanting and lyrical. The image of a young woman gathering sunflowers in the next field is so reminiscent of Van Gogh and Kurosawa's cinematic version in his latter movie Dreams. While there were no sunflowers in Kurosawa's rendition, the golden wheat fields and scores of black crows interspersed with other of Van Gogh's masterpieces left lasting impressions. This is a utopian image for me and reminds me of a wildlife refuge where a sanctuary for wildlife and migrating birds exist along the meandering Rio Grande River in New Mexico where the harsh and vast semi-desert surrounds the luscious oasis full of marshes.  

 

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