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Rob_Hugo@PortNWA bit of controversy here, but I was really struck by "The Mother of Mencius" piece in Ebrey(pg. 73): "If you do not study now, you will surely end up as a menial servant and will never be free from troubles." "If a woman neglects her work or a man gives up the cultivation of his character, they may end up as common thieves if not slaves!" Mencius was "shaken," and "from then on studied hard from morning to night."
The number one complaint that teachers have about our Hispanic students is that they are "lazy" and "don't try." Do you believe that the virtues of Confucianism have filtered down through the generations of our Asian students, and it is that that gives them the edge? Is their "better behavior" related to Confucianism, or are they simply docile? [Edit by="eshorer on May 31, 9:17:14 PM"][/Edit]
[Edit by="eshorer on May 31, 9:22:57 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousAs a Confucian defender, I believe that learning and practicing good values over the centuries certainly effects your lives. Confucianism emphasized education. I teach in a 98% Latino school (San Fernando High School). Although the latino students place importance on families, they do not emphasize education. For some reason, they do not value education. The students are very willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on things they do value. One example would be cars. Even for the families who do value education, they de-emphasize it for girls.
My conclusion regarding why Asian students do better than Latino students lies in their values. Placing an importance on anything makes it a higher priority or goal.
Larry
AnonymousI also teach at a school with a high number of latino students and am having the same experiece as Larry. The value on education does not seem to be there. Your example is funny because our students do not seem to be involved in anything around here, yet a car show is in the works which is get mass attention from the students.
AnonymousLast night, I was discussing this issue with Maria and she added another dimension regarding Latino students that I overlooked. The issue of social class. Most of our students come from poverty, where education does not matter. Students need to see the value of education and parents need to support education at home to succeed.
Larry
AnonymousHello, We talked about this last night as well. I agree education needs to
be valued in the home. I always hear about school programs trying to
get the parents involved in the childs education but I never seem to hear
about the positive outcomes. Are there any, whats happening with the
money being spent on the programs. Is it making a difference.
AnonymousWhen schools work together with families to support learning, children tend to succeed not just in school, but throughout life. In fact, the most accurate predictor of a student's achievement in school is not income or social status, but the extent to which that student's family is able to:
1. Create a home environment that encourages learning;
2. Express high (but not unrealistic) expectations for their children's achievement and future careers;
3. Become involved in their children's education at school and in the community.
Asian families as well as others provide this kind of environment.
Larry
AnonymousI have always heard that in Asia education is very important and that families are very involved in thier childs education. Does the values toward education stick when families come to America
AnonymousAt our Middle School we have about 7% Asian students who generally have a reputation of having the highest scores and fewest discipline problems. These students live in the same community as the other students. Is their better performance a coincidence? SOMETHING is going on. I do believe that the values travel beyond borders.
You wrote: >Re: Why are Asian students better? by cdaddario
I have always heard that in Asia education is very important and that families are very involved in thier childs education. Does the values toward education stick when families come to America [Edit by="eshorer on Jun 2, 3:13:37 PM"][/Edit]
AnonymousThe number one complaint that teachers have about our Hispanic students is that they are "lazy" and "don't try." Do you believe that the virtues of Confucianism have filtered down through the generations of our Asian students, and it is that that gives them the edge? Is their "better behavior" related to Confucianism, or are they simply docile?
Of course Confucianism must have some effect on Asian culture. However, I have a problem with teachers who label Hispanic students "lazy". I see it as pure ignorance! Culture and "handing down" tradition is complex and we as teachers should take time to understand this phenomenon. This in turn may help us to see our students in differet terms. In eight years of teaching Hispanic students I don't see any evidence of laziness. Yes, there are challenges (the data proves it) but I believe they are of an entirely different nature. What do you mean by "docile?"
AnonymousComparing our Latino students educational support to a Cambodian family that used to live next door.(I believe their background was low economic class.) The Cambodian daughter in 7th grade spoke disparaging ly of her fellow (Latina) classmates "They don't know that their education is the most important thing. I believe continual emphasis, to the point of indoctrination, is one part of the recipe for success in Asian families. It is more than the occaisional "your education is important, it is like a mantra or a commandment in the family. So school is a bit more like another church for the family, and the kids feel the connection and the reverence.
Another difference I see is in "sweating the small stuff" or as the saying goes "the devil is in the details" school work-wise. In the Cambodian and perhaps other Asian families, every detail having to do with education was focused on and dissected. The kids were expected to do their homework immediately after school, and the Mom was cooking and supervising.
Many well meaning Latino parents tell their kids to do their homework and are upset to find out later they didn't do it. Asking someone if they did their homework is not the same as watching them do it!! But often I see sloppy (or slow on the uptake) follow up from parents when kids get lazy or disorganized about homework. The problem is, those off- task behaviors are intrinsically rewarding. (As kids spend time on other things besides homework it give them more pleasure.) Thus, the behavior gets reinforced many times by the time the parent focuses on it. Then it is more of a full scale rebellion, and the kid will try more evasive manuvers since the follow up wasn't timely in the first place. Follow up has to be TIMELY and SPECIFIC, and emotionally INTENSE, not vauge, general, or intermittent.
AnonymousWhen I said "Is their "better behavior" related to Confucianism, or are they simply docile?" I meant that it may be a perception based on the quiet or teachable nature of many of our Asian students.
Anonymoushey all
just perused all the commentary analyzing the academic success of Asian students. all very interesting indeed. as a Filipina-American(born there grew up here), i was always concerned with education. there was never any discussion of whether or not to do homework or earn anything other than A's. it was a given. now, as to why this is so...i don't know. however, this is also a stereotype. as we all know, stereotypes have deleterious effects. imagine the Asian student who is,god-forbid, average. the stigma is enormous in the family. asian artists are few too, as a direct result of the valuing of doctors, lawyers, professors over painters, singers, and artists in general. there is definitely an economic variable at play here. who knows? like most all human conditions, it is all subjective. i recall early in my teaching career, when i had a Chinese student who received a "C" in my class. I felt awful for her, and I'm Asian-American.
evangeline
AnonymousI appreciate your input re. stereotypes. We do need to be careful esp. as teachers.
Anonymous"Because they don't have a life."
This is an actual quote from one of my Academic Decatheletes in regards to one of the teams we faced in competition that was 99% asian.
"They don't party, they don't go out, all they do is stay home and study."
Maybe there is some truth to this because that team blew us out of the water.
AnonymousThe subject for this thread was "Why are Asian students better? As pointed out by later postings, that in itself is a stereotype. But what I found extremely insulting was the name calling and stereotyping of Latino students as "lazy" and "docile". It truly makes me wonder what would be said about African Americans, if one weren't present in the class?
There is no place in "education" for stereotypes of people and/or cultures. To me stereotyping by a teacher, only means the teacher hasn't taken the time to truly know each individual student in his or her class. I haven't had two students alike from any ethnic, cultural or racial group. Their problems are not the same. Their successes are not the same. And their reactions to their particular situations are not the same.
Students often give teachers the results the teachers have in one way or another communicated to the student that they expect. Expectation is critical in the motivating of any student.
I have found that when you expect success, and treat "all" your students with the same respect that we as teachers expect from our students, students will try their very best. Every student has a strength. Find it and help the student to use it in the furtherance of his or her education.