Why are Asian students better?

[Anonymous]

Controversial topic, indeed. A bit of clarification: I was saying that there is a perception that Hispanic students are lazy and Asian students are docile. I think that one major reason for such beliefs is the high dropout rate for the former and the high graduation rate for the latter. Fully 50% of our eighth graders did not graduate on stage last year due to not meeting graduation requirements. I agree that each student should be treated with both respect and the expectation that they can be successful. I also agree with an earlier poster who said it is a matter of values, and what is important to the individual. My original intent in starting the thread was to question whether or not the teachings of Confucius filtered down to our Asian students. We may have the most rigorous classroom environment in the district, but if there is a culture of negativity on the playground, and a culture of not studying in the home, it will be difficult for any student to reach his or her potential. It is not a question of ability, it is a question of effort, and support. Are these “Confucian?”

[Anonymous]

I agree! Although I do not see negativity in and around school as much as not placing importance on an education. The students do not study because this lack of interest and the parents do not hold them accountable. Students in my school, if they finish seem to be on the 5 or more year plan for a high school diploma. We can not do this alone!

Larry

[Anonymous]

To add to the discussion, I attended an interesting seminar about the culture of poverty and the ways in which different socioeconomic classes view education.

For the super wealthy, education is a necessary part of the grooming process for final entry into the elite social circles. Education is about networking with the "right people."

For the middle class, education is highly valued as a means to advance oneself socially and economically - to climb the social ladder and achieve the American Dream. Therefore, applying oneself and "working hard " in school to achieve is emphasized. By the way, public schools are middle class institutions and this value system permeates our schools whether or not our students share the same values.

For the poor, education is believed to be important, but in a very abstract manner. There is often little understanding of how to achieve in education or knowledge of what the real benefits of succeeding in this arena may be. Lack of role models and lack of structure in daily living may make success more difficult.

For both the poor and the middle class, individuals who jump up a class go through great personal sacrifice while they are working hard to make it to the next level. Often the family background must left behind, at least for a while, in order to move in new circles. For many students, leaving their family and culture behind, or conversely being rejected by their own families or peer group (being labeled as "too good for us") in order to achieve on a higher socioeconomic level is not worth the sacrifice.

Catherine

[Anonymous]

My boyfriend, Peter, who is Chinese-American would like to join the discussion for a bit...
Catherine

Hello everyone. I could not resist the opportunity to weigh in on such a "meaty" issue.

In discussing the obviously politically sensitive question of whether Latino students are inherently lazy, and Asian students more studious, or docile, I believe the method of immigration plays a significant role, and needs to taken into consideration.

Asian immigrants, by and large, come by airplane, and are subject to the filtering system of federal immigration policy that favors those with attractive skill sets and other demographics many of which are socio-economic in nature. It would be natural for these pool of immigrants, therefore, to exhibit values more akin to the middle class or above.

Many Latino immigrants, however, come directly from the adjacent border. By virtue of this proximity, this immigrant process has fewer numbers of "weeders" for class and means. For many who are here illegally, and therefore not subject to the controls of immigration policy, they tend to exhibit outlooks associated with lower socio-economic strata who don't favor education as much.

To wit, there are many poor, uneducated Chinese in China's interiors, who are not educationally motivated; conversely, there are many well educated Mexicans in Mexico City who highly value education. Even though Los Angeles is one of the most diverse places on earth, the sampling of immigrants here don't always tell the whole story of an entire culture.

I also don't wish to diminish the esteemed role of education, however, in Chinese culture. It is an important component, of many others, to consider in looking at the success of many Asian Americans. I also think about a recent film called: "Better Luck Tomorrow" where the stereotypical Asian "docile" student is turned on its head.

Stereotypes exist for a reason - but are also dangerous for a reason.

Peter Shiao

[Anonymous]

To Peter by way of Catherine:
I really appreciated what you had to say, and how you said it. Sorry you're not in the class with us.

[Anonymous]

I realize this reply is a little late but I haven't been as diligent as I should have been in posting. When I was at Lincoln High (Asian pop. 23%), many of the Asian kids didn't like the expectations placed on them just because they were Asian. The pressure caused quite a few to copy on assignments and tests.

[Anonymous]

On the subject of education and Latino studets, many of our Latino families place more importance on family than education. We must keep in mind that the majority of immigrants came here for jobs. The immigrant generation usually does not succeed as much as the first. I do believe that family support is the key. My parents placed a lot of importance on eduation and as a result both my sisters and I have graduate degrees. We are not even first generation as we were all born in Puerto Rico. Spanish is our first language, we learned Enlgish at school but my mother taught us to read in Spanish at home. We actually learned to read in English before we read in Spanish!

[Anonymous]

I think that the "better" relates more to a respect for teachers that the parents impart to their children to a much greater degree than in other cultures. What I mean by this is that they are much more likely to support the teacher and demand that the child meet the teacher's expectations. I feel they are much less likely to blame the teacher and believe lies told by their child to cover their behavior. Of course, this doesn't apply to all, but in my experience, there has been a stronger support level that reinforces the teacher requirements. What this translates into is less time wasted with the "split" between parent and teacher that is so prevalent in the coddled and entitled generation.

[Anonymous]

I've been re-reading parts we skimmed by... on pg 8-9 of Murphey...it goes into the collective responsibility within families and the "glory or benefit earned by individuals which the other members of the group share." It refers to recent studies that compare achievement of American vs East Asian and attribute the greater success of the East Asian to the "efforts made within families to promote the education of their children, especially sons." There is an understanding that success and social prestige can best be achieved through a good education. This attitude is deeply ingrained due to the centuries long ethic of hard discipline needed to pass the imperial exams.
There is virtually nothing like this in the Western traditions...especially when a C+ average becomes something to boast about rather than to hide. I'm thinking also about the obvious anti-intellectual anti-geek attitudes that operate within the teen peer groups. And, there is the hero worship of the rock stars and athletes vs. anyone with advanced degrees. The mass media and our culture most often operates in opposition to disciplined study and effort. One only needs to look at our own school cultures and answer the question, "Is there a discipline problem in many classes that prevents effective instruction?" And, how does the school administration deal with behavioral challenges?

[Author]

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